[HamGateNY] Welcome to HamGateNY

Mon Nov 30 15:27:39 EST 2020

Not at all..
Actually if you read this you can run unattended outside the Automatically controlled sub bands as well, special rules in section C.

§ 97.221 Automatically controlled digital station.
(a) This rule section does not apply to an auxiliary station, a beacon station, a repeater station, an earth station, a space station, or a space telecommand station.

(b) A station may be automatically controlled while transmitting a RTTY or data emission on the 6 m or shorter wavelength bands, and on the 28.120-28.189 MHz, 24.925-24.930 MHz, 21.090-21.100 MHz, 18.105-18.110 MHz, 14.0950-14.0995 MHz, 14.1005-14.112 MHz, 10.140-10.150 MHz, 7.100-7.105 MHz, or 3.585-3.600 MHz segments.

(c) Except for channels specified in § 97.303(h), a station may be automatically controlled while transmitting a RTTY or data emission on any other frequency authorized for such emission types provided that:

(1) The station is responding to interrogation by a station under local or remote control; and

(2) No transmission from the automatically controlled station occupies a bandwidth of more than 500 Hz.

[60 FR 26001, May 16, 1995, as amended at 72 FR 3082, Jan. 24, 2007; 77 FR 5412, Feb. 3, 2012]

From: HamGateNY [mailto:hamgateny-bounces at n2nov.net] On Behalf Of Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM (ex. KD2PLE)
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 3:15 PM
To: HamGateNY - AMPRnet (44Net) Sysops in NY <hamgateny at n2nov.net>
Subject: Re: [HamGateNY] Welcome to HamGateNY

So does that mean that Winlink RMS nodes and servers running at 70M, 80M + 160M are illegal?

________________________________________
Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM (formerly KD2PLE)
MLT/MT(ASCP,) EMT-B(ret.,) InfoSec, etc.
Sullivan County, NY ARES/RACES Member + Webmaster
andrew at highland-it.com<mailto:andrew at highland-it.com>
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kb2ajm at winlink.org<mailto:kb2ajm at winlink.org>
> Skype = andrew.j.mcleod
x4300 = Hamshack Hotline - Base
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COMING BACK: http://tech.realmcleod.net
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Tinker of Antennas, APRS, AMPRnet, Winlink,
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and many other geeky things.
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On Nov 30, 2020, at 2:34 PM, Brian Webster <bwebster at stny.rr.com<mailto:bwebster at stny.rr.com>> wrote:
Unattended operations are allowed at 50 MHz and above.

Thank You,
Brian Webster N2KGC
Cooperstown. NY

From: HamGateNY [mailto:hamgateny-bounces at n2nov.net] On Behalf Of Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM (ex. KD2PLE)
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 2:30 PM
To: HamGateNY - AMPRnet (44Net) Sysops in NY
Subject: Re: [HamGateNY] Welcome to HamGateNY

Brian,
If it's not legal to have an unattended station (definition of "unattended" as under Part 97,) then how do Winlink/RMS, APRS, and even our own BBS', JNOS + other email/internet or voice network relay/access nodes work if we're not logged in monitoring them 24x7x365?
Or are they - like repeaters with phone patch capabilities or on EchoLink - considered "remotely controlled" stations?
How is an ALE node that a human being is dialing into remotely just available on variably clear frequencies different than connecting to a repeater - just one multiple possible (but preprogrammed) frequencies?
And if a station (even on a sine preset frequency) cannot be unattended, then how are our RF links across the state supposed to work?
I'm sincerely asking so that I understand the difference.
Thank you.
Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM

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On Nov 30, 2020, at 1:52 PM, Brian Webster <bwebster at stny.rr.com<mailto:bwebster at stny.rr.com>> wrote:
The problem with ALE on the ham bands is that it’s not legal to have an unattended station.

Thank You,
Brian Webster N2KGC
Cooperstown. NY

From: HamGateNY [mailto:hamgateny-bounces at n2nov.net] On Behalf Of Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM (ex. KD2PLE)
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 1:22 PM
To: HamGateNY - AMPRnet (44Net) Sysops in NY
Subject: Re: [HamGateNY] Welcome to HamGateNY

Christopher,
> The question is, will we build in the discipline
> to make sure the RF paths always work.
> Maybe the answer to that is 1) caring (hehe)
> and 2) some kind of NMS approach that keeps
> track of the condition of the RF path.  That's an
> area I'd love to help.
That's why near the tail end of my last [long-winded] email I asked about ALE. From my short time in MARS, I know at least some of the officers of the Region used ALE on HF with an automatic tuner/matcher to always be autonomously active 24x7 to pass on messages as needed, and as I just now started also working with Winlink, I was wondering if that's how some of these nodes on the map are changing listed frequencies as the day goes on and the MUF/LUF changes (either that or they've got 15 antennas...)
Anyone here have a similar type of set-up?

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On Nov 30, 2020, at 12:55 PM, Christopher Piggott <cpiggott at gmail.com<mailto:cpiggott at gmail.com>> wrote:
Just my few conversations with people in the regions we used to have working RF networks is starting to yield results. Enough results that we might have an RF network back up and running at least from Albany to the Buffalo region.

Your optimism about this really made my day.  It gives me a sense of purpose.

Hybrid networks are, will and should be part of our systems.

I've been on a rant about amateur packet being totally dependent on the internet (which maybe is inaccurate and too pessimistic) but the way you phrased it approaches things more practically.  The question is, will we build in the discipline to make sure the RF paths always work.  Maybe the answer to that is 1) caring (hehe) and 2) some kind of NMS approach that keeps track of the condition of the RF path.  That's an area I'd love to help.

On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 10:17 AM Brian Webster < bwebster at stny.rr.com<mailto:bwebster at stny.rr.com>> wrote:
Hybrid networks are, will and should be part of our systems. Even though RF links can be much slower than the internet backbone, slow is better than no connectivity should various portions of the network have connectivity issues. Something as simple as a power outage for an extended periods of time at a gateway location can affect the users on that segment of a network in the state. Having the RF link to use will be a nice asset. Many of the packet node systems can make use of routing to make use of the best working path at any given time.

Just getting us all talking about these things makes a huge difference. Just my few conversations with people in the regions we used to have working RF networks is starting to yield results. Enough results that we might have an RF network back up and running at least from Albany to the Buffalo region. From that core links up to Watertown and Northern NY and then the Southern Tier could  be next. The RF linking to the downstate and NY metro region will likely be easiest to accomplish with a link from PA to Northern NJ and that existing network for now. Once those are established additional routes over RF would be the next logical step to have some redundancy.

Thank you,
Brian Webster N2KGC
Cooperstown, NY 13326

From: HamGateNY [mailto:hamgateny-bounces at n2nov.net<mailto:hamgateny-bounces at n2nov.net>] On Behalf Of Joe Cupano
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2020 11:51 AM
To: 44Net Sysops in NY State; Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM (ex. KD2PLE)
Subject: Re: [HamGateNY] Welcome to HamGateNY

Well said, AJM

It was amazing how much infrastructure was unaffected in the rest of NYC.
I worked for a global financial that started hosting other financials on our IT infra
that were displaced by the events in a few days.

73,

- Joe, NE2Z
Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM (ex. KD2PLE):
On Nov 16, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Christopher Piggott <cpiggott at gmail.com><mailto:cpiggott at gmail.com> wrote:
Internet to help carry between those areas where a direct RF connection may not be possible
I do understand that.  I'm just worried about the idea of being so dependent on public wired and wireless infrastructure.
I too worry about the dependency on public infrastructure. On the other hand, you do have to admit that:
a) there is a lot more geography covered by it than by Hams nowadays, and
b) in my mind (personal opinion from personal experience,) the lessons of 9/11 (when I was still living in northern NJ and was a Voice + IP tech/engineer in Manhattan at the time) demonstrated the self-healing and resilient capabilities of TCP/IP and packet networks, as was intended by the DARPA people who to my understanding invented it to (hopefully) maintain distributed command and control after a nuclear attack. When maximum destruction at ground zero took out not only Verizon Bldg. #7 but all the fiber, copper and AT&T switching equipment in the basement of tower (1 or 2) and - between cable cuts and power loss - the majority of the interconnects coming into the eastern seaboard, when analog switched phone, cellular, many of the local NYC broadcast TV and radio stations (antennas on the roof of the WTC) went out. But my Blackberry work pager worked, as did AOL and Yahoo instant messenger, and a lot of people communicated with their families that way that day...
Although I do not have all the faith in the world that some have in our infrastructure (including FirstNet) nor do I live all the way in conspiracyland, I do believe that our dependence on the internet for all types of connectivity (even some of the ignorant hospitals I work for depend almost entirely on remote connectivity across large healthcare systems with distant data enters with almost no local infrastructure now,) has led to at least a somewhat stronger, more resilient network in that regard.
And to that extent, for what we are doing, for small hops in between the regions that we simply do not have enough Hams to cover, I think we have no choice but for a hybrid system. After all, "44net" by definition is related to our IPv4 allocation. And so unlike some projects that are intended to be entirely wireless, I think hybrid is in our DNA so to speak...
Barring solar flares and all out armageddon, I think we have no choice...
That's just my opinion...
73,
AJM, KB2AJM
On Nov 16, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Christopher Piggott <cpiggott at gmail.com<mailto:cpiggott at gmail.com>> wrote:
Internet to help carry between those areas where a direct RF connection may not be possible

I do understand that.  I'm just worried about the idea of being so dependent on public wired and wireless infrastructure.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 9:18 PM Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM (ex. KD2PLE) < andrew at kb2ajm.us<mailto:andrew at kb2ajm.us>> wrote:
Hello Mitch KE7WWT.
Without drooling too much, I just wanted to say that your extremely ambitious project(s) mirror my own interests in being able to "INTER-network" and converge these vital (and fun) communications technologies - voice, data/packet/digi, VoIP, APRS, RF, terrestrial, etc.
You guys up north may be some of the poorest counties in NYS, but down here in the rural Catskills we have some simar statistics too (just not ones to brag about.) I and a few dispersed others also have ambitious ideas that many surrounding us are either put off by or simply not interested in. And so while a few projects of communal interest are making some progress regionally (ex. Winlink, an ARES/RACES repeater, some APRS digipeaters and I-gates, etc.) others such as myself have been doing similar to you - trying to build it all ourselves out of shallow pockets and an even smaller lot of property.
I find your portable C&C center very interesting, and similar to my (thus far more) meager and slightly larger 12U rolling 19" rack case I've built for ARES and personal use. The entire idea of being able to congregate info from a multitude of sources and potentially do so two-way over range without the requirement of failable infrastructure is exactly what interests me as well (too many years of IT and EMS, including working in NYC before, during and after 9/11.)
So while - with the exception of my SignaLink USB on HF - my setup is (mostly) analog so far, my goal as time and finances allow is to expand this into the exact same voice/packet INTER-networked type of set-up you have in mind, both stationary/base as well as portable.
I would definitely be interested in chatting as to where you are and where you see your next steps to be going, and if I can offer any assistance from my background I would be happy to do so - AND THAT OFFER GOES TO ANYBODY ELSE WHERE.
With regards to internet connectivity, TCP/IP, data and VoIP equipment, I have (home) business-grade internet with a 13 usable block of public IPs, as well as considerably more TCP/IP, VoIP and security equipment (Cisco, Ubiquiti, etc.) at the moment than I do Ham, so while I know TCP/IP is a heavy-overhead protocol, if any projects of interest have the need to (for example) convert an incoming RF analog voice or fax signal into TCP/IP to send out over the internet - or to use VoIP to link RFs at 2 locations over internet (sort of like EchoLink does,) those are some of the ideas I've been toying around with...
Enough for now. Glad to make everybody's acquaintance, and TTYS.
73 again,
Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM
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On Nov 11, 2020, at 6:52 AM, "Maurice A. Mitchell - KE7WWT" < maurice at maurice-mitchell.com<mailto:maurice at maurice-mitchell.com>> wrote:

KE7WWT

Jefferson County NY (North of Syracuse) located just a stone's throw away from the fence at Fort Drum.  Retired Army - 26 years, 7 months, 5 days and 2 hours.

I run the WINLINK Packet system and serve on the both ARES and RACES.  I am a DHS SHARES operator with ALE/Voice and HF RMS WINLINK.  I am also a MARS operator.

I start this project almost a year ago and thanks to changes dealing with COVID, I have ran out of time, but hope to have things change soon.  I wanted to use the 44Net as a way to combine, in one box or two (ammo cans) the ability to have a mobile/portable node that serves Broadband Hamnet, APRS I-GATE and digi, remote control of base station radios, DMR and maybe D-STAR hotspots, and of course the ability to link and interface Packet.

Jefferson and its surrounding counties (Saint Lawrence and Lewis) are the three poorest counties in the State, and as such, there is very little activity that requires expenditure of money.  As such, I have taken the "build it and they will come" mentality. In the end, it does not work - This is baofeng country.  Not a lot of hams, and not a lot of invested in the art and science of communications.  That said, I still want a method that can tie me into various networks to not only pull information, but also to share information for the benefit of a larger group.  I want something that is not internet-dependent, but is internet-enabled.

In the end. .  I need a lot of help.

Mitch

-----Original Message-----

From: HamGateNY <hamgateny-bounces at n2nov.net<mailto:hamgateny-bounces at n2nov.net>> On Behalf Of Charles J. Hargrove

Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 23:28

To: hamgateny at n2nov.net<mailto:hamgateny at n2nov.net>

Subject: Re: [HamGateNY] Welcome to HamGateNY

So far we have seen introductions from:

KA1NJL, K2JJT, WW2BSA, KB2AJM and AJ2A.

How about the rest of this 92 person group?

What is your set-up or what will it be?

What software, hardware, services, etc?

Let us all help each other to get things going.

On 11/5/2020 11:06 AM, Charles J. Hargrove wrote:

        Since the merger of the WNYPG mailing list into the HamGateNY list, we

 now have 87 members (some who were on both lists).  This would be a

 great opportunity to introduce yourselves.  Give us your callsign,

 what area of NY State (or outside of it), what kind of packet system

 you are running, etc.

 Let's use this list as a request-for-help and sharing of

 knowledge/projects.

 I will start:

 - N2NOV

 - Staten Island, NYC

 - EmComm lead for ARES/RACES during 9/11, 2003 Blackout, etc

 - Founder/President of NYC-ARECS (

            http://www.nyc-arecs.org)

 - running JNOS system since 1998 starting on DOS and now Linux

 - NY State 44Net/

            AMPR.org<http://AMPR.org> coordinator

 - IT field since 1989 (databases, networking, help desk, web hosting)

 - ran for Congress as a write-in twice

 (

            http://www.HargroveForCongress.us)

 - Secretary of the Staten Island Libertarian Party

--

Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV

NYC-ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.

NYC-ARECS/RACES Nets 147.360/107.2 PL

ARnewsline Broadcast Mon. @ 8:00PM

NYC-ARECS Weekly Net Mon. @ 8:30PM

http://www.nyc-arecs.org

NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM on 7.036 Mhz USB (alt 3.536)/1500 hz waterfall spot; MFSK-16 or 32

"Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus

"Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying (The work praises the man.)

"No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan

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