[HamGateNY] Welcome to HamGateNY

Mon Nov 30 14:29:32 EST 2020

Brian,

If it's not legal to have an unattended station (definition of "unattended" as under Part 97,) then how do Winlink/RMS, APRS, and even our own BBS', JNOS + other email/internet or voice network relay/access nodes work if we're not logged in monitoring them 24x7x365?

Or are they - like repeaters with phone patch capabilities or on EchoLink - considered "remotely controlled" stations?

How is an ALE node that a human being is dialing into remotely just available on variably clear frequencies different than connecting to a repeater - just one multiple possible (but preprogrammed) frequencies?

And if a station (even on a sine preset frequency) cannot be unattended, then how are our RF links across the state supposed to work?

I'm sincerely asking so that I understand the difference.

Thank you.

Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM

⁣Get BlueMail for Android 

On Nov 30, 2020, 1:52 PM, at 1:52 PM, Brian Webster <bwebster at stny.rr.com> wrote:
>The problem with ALE on the ham bands is that it’s not legal to have an
>unattended station.
>
> 
>
>Thank You,
>
>Brian Webster N2KGC
>
>Cooperstown. NY
>
> 
>
>From: HamGateNY [mailto:hamgateny-bounces at n2nov.net] On Behalf Of
>Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM (ex. KD2PLE)
>Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 1:22 PM
>To: HamGateNY - AMPRnet (44Net) Sysops in NY
>Subject: Re: [HamGateNY] Welcome to HamGateNY
>
> 
>
>Christopher,
>
>> The question is, will we build in the discipline
>
>> to make sure the RF paths always work. 
>
>> Maybe the answer to that is 1) caring (hehe)
>
>> and 2) some kind of NMS approach that keeps
>
>> track of the condition of the RF path.  That's an
>
>> area I'd love to help.
>
>That's why near the tail end of my last [long-winded] email I asked
>about ALE. From my short time in MARS, I know at least some of the
>officers of the Region used ALE on HF with an automatic tuner/matcher
>to always be autonomously active 24x7 to pass on messages as needed,
>and as I just now started also working with Winlink, I was wondering if
>that's how some of these nodes on the map are changing listed
>frequencies as the day goes on and the MUF/LUF changes (either that or
>they've got 15 antennas...)
>
>Anyone here have a similar type of set-up?
>
>
>
>
>
>Get BlueMail for Android <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=16117>  
>
>On Nov 30, 2020, at 12:55 PM, Christopher Piggott <cpiggott at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>Just my few conversations with people in the regions we used to have
>working RF networks is starting to yield results. Enough results that
>we might have an RF network back up and running at least from Albany to
>the Buffalo region. 
>
> 
>
>Your optimism about this really made my day.  It gives me a sense of
>purpose. 
>
> 
>
>Hybrid networks are, will and should be part of our systems.  
>
>  
>
>I've been on a rant about amateur packet being totally dependent on the
>internet (which maybe is inaccurate and too pessimistic) but the way
>you phrased it approaches things more practically.  The question is,
>will we build in the discipline to make sure the RF paths always work. 
>Maybe the answer to that is 1) caring (hehe) and 2) some kind of NMS
>approach that keeps track of the condition of the RF path.  That's an
>area I'd love to help. 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 10:17 AM Brian Webster < bwebster at stny.rr.com>
>wrote: 
>
>Hybrid networks are, will and should be part of our systems. Even
>though RF links can be much slower than the internet backbone, slow is
>better than no connectivity should various portions of the network have
>connectivity issues. Something as simple as a power outage for an
>extended periods of time at a gateway location can affect the users on
>that segment of a network in the state. Having the RF link to use will
>be a nice asset. Many of the packet node systems can make use of
>routing to make use of the best working path at any given time.
>
> 
>
>Just getting us all talking about these things makes a huge difference.
>Just my few conversations with people in the regions we used to have
>working RF networks is starting to yield results. Enough results that
>we might have an RF network back up and running at least from Albany to
>the Buffalo region. From that core links up to Watertown and Northern
>NY and then the Southern Tier could  be next. The RF linking to the
>downstate and NY metro region will likely be easiest to accomplish with
>a link from PA to Northern NJ and that existing network for now. Once
>those are established additional routes over RF would be the next
>logical step to have some redundancy.
>
> 
>
>Thank you,
>
>Brian Webster N2KGC
>
>Cooperstown, NY 13326
>
> 
>
>From: HamGateNY [mailto:hamgateny-bounces at n2nov.net] On Behalf Of Joe
>Cupano
>Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2020 11:51 AM
>To: 44Net Sysops in NY State; Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM (ex. KD2PLE)
>Subject: Re: [HamGateNY] Welcome to HamGateNY
>
> 
>
>
>Well said, AJM
>
>It was amazing how much infrastructure was unaffected in the rest of
>NYC.
>I worked for a global financial that started hosting other financials
>on our IT infra
>that were displaced by the events in a few days.
>
>73,
>
>- Joe, NE2Z
>
>Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM (ex. KD2PLE):
>
>On Nov 16, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Christopher Piggott 
><mailto:cpiggott at gmail.com> <cpiggott at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Internet to help carry between those areas where a direct RF connection
>may not be possible  
>
>I do understand that.  I'm just worried about the idea of being so
>dependent on public wired and wireless infrastructure.
>
>
>
>I too worry about the dependency on public infrastructure. On the other
>hand, you do have to admit that:
>
>a) there is a lot more geography covered by it than by Hams nowadays,
>and
>
>b) in my mind (personal opinion from personal experience,) the lessons
>of 9/11 (when I was still living in northern NJ and was a Voice + IP
>tech/engineer in Manhattan at the time) demonstrated the self-healing
>and resilient capabilities of TCP/IP and packet networks, as was
>intended by the DARPA people who to my understanding invented it to
>(hopefully) maintain distributed command and control after a nuclear
>attack. When maximum destruction at ground zero took out not only
>Verizon Bldg. #7 but all the fiber, copper and AT&T switching equipment
>in the basement of tower (1 or 2) and - between cable cuts and power
>loss - the majority of the interconnects coming into the eastern
>seaboard, when analog switched phone, cellular, many of the local NYC
>broadcast TV and radio stations (antennas on the roof of the WTC) went
>out. But my Blackberry work pager worked, as did AOL and Yahoo instant
>messenger, and a lot of people communicated with their families that
>way that day...
>
>Although I do not have all the faith in the world that some have in our
>infrastructure (including FirstNet) nor do I live all the way in
>conspiracyland, I do believe that our dependence on the internet for
>all types of connectivity (even some of the ignorant hospitals I work
>for depend almost entirely on remote connectivity across large
>healthcare systems with distant data enters with almost no local
>infrastructure now,) has led to at least a somewhat stronger, more
>resilient network in that regard.
>
>And to that extent, for what we are doing, for small hops in between
>the regions that we simply do not have enough Hams to cover, I think we
>have no choice but for a hybrid system. After all, "44net" by
>definition is related to our IPv4 allocation. And so unlike some
>projects that are intended to be entirely wireless, I think hybrid is
>in our DNA so to speak...
>
>Barring solar flares and all out armageddon, I think we have no
>choice...
>
>That's just my opinion...
>
>73,
>
>AJM, KB2AJM
>
>On Nov 16, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Christopher Piggott <cpiggott at gmail.com>
>wrote: 
>
>Internet to help carry between those areas where a direct RF connection
>may not be possible   
>
> 
>
>I do understand that.  I'm just worried about the idea of being so
>dependent on public wired and wireless infrastructure. 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 9:18 PM Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM (ex. KD2PLE) <
>andrew at kb2ajm.us> wrote: 
>
>Hello Mitch KE7WWT. 
>
>Without drooling too much, I just wanted to say that your extremely
>ambitious project(s) mirror my own interests in being able to
>"INTER-network" and converge these vital (and fun) communications
>technologies - voice, data/packet/digi, VoIP, APRS, RF, terrestrial,
>etc. 
>
>You guys up north may be some of the poorest counties in NYS, but down
>here in the rural Catskills we have some simar statistics too (just not
>ones to brag about.) I and a few dispersed others also have ambitious
>ideas that many surrounding us are either put off by or simply not
>interested in. And so while a few projects of communal interest are
>making some progress regionally (ex. Winlink, an ARES/RACES repeater,
>some APRS digipeaters and I-gates, etc.) others such as myself have
>been doing similar to you - trying to build it all ourselves out of
>shallow pockets and an even smaller lot of property. 
>
>I find your portable C&C center very interesting, and similar to my
>(thus far more) meager and slightly larger 12U rolling 19" rack case
>I've built for ARES and personal use. The entire idea of being able to
>congregate info from a multitude of sources and potentially do so
>two-way over range without the requirement of failable infrastructure
>is exactly what interests me as well (too many years of IT and EMS,
>including working in NYC before, during and after 9/11.) 
>
>So while - with the exception of my SignaLink USB on HF - my setup is
>(mostly) analog so far, my goal as time and finances allow is to expand
>this into the exact same voice/packet INTER-networked type of set-up
>you have in mind, both stationary/base as well as portable. 
>
>I would definitely be interested in chatting as to where you are and
>where you see your next steps to be going, and if I can offer any
>assistance from my background I would be happy to do so - AND THAT
>OFFER GOES TO ANYBODY ELSE WHERE. 
>
>With regards to internet connectivity, TCP/IP, data and VoIP equipment,
>I have (home) business-grade internet with a 13 usable block of public
>IPs, as well as considerably more TCP/IP, VoIP and security equipment
>(Cisco, Ubiquiti, etc.) at the moment than I do Ham, so while I know
>TCP/IP is a heavy-overhead protocol, if any projects of interest have
>the need to (for example) convert an incoming RF analog voice or fax
>signal into TCP/IP to send out over the internet - or to use VoIP to
>link RFs at 2 locations over internet (sort of like EchoLink does,)
>those are some of the ideas I've been toying around with... 
>
>Enough for now. Glad to make everybody's acquaintance, and TTYS. 
>
>73 again, 
>
>Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM 
>
>
>
>
>Get BlueMail for Android <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=16117>  
>
>On Nov 11, 2020, at 6:52 AM, "Maurice A. Mitchell - KE7WWT" <
>maurice at maurice-mitchell.com> wrote: 
>
>KE7WWT
>Jefferson County NY (North of Syracuse) located just a stone's throw
>away from the fence at Fort Drum.  Retired Army - 26 years, 7 months, 5
>days and 2 hours.
> 
>I run the WINLINK Packet system and serve on the both ARES and RACES. 
>I am a DHS SHARES operator with ALE/Voice and HF RMS WINLINK.  I am
>also a MARS operator. 
> 
>I start this project almost a year ago and thanks to changes dealing
>with COVID, I have ran out of time, but hope to have things change
>soon.  I wanted to use the 44Net as a way to combine, in one box or two
>(ammo cans) the ability to have a mobile/portable node that serves
>Broadband Hamnet, APRS I-GATE and digi, remote control of base station
>radios, DMR and maybe D-STAR hotspots, and of course the ability to
>link and interface Packet. 
> 
>Jefferson and its surrounding counties (Saint Lawrence and Lewis) are
>the three poorest counties in the State, and as such, there is very
>little activity that requires expenditure of money.  As such, I have
>taken the "build it and they will come" mentality. In the end, it does
>not work - This is baofeng country.  Not a lot of hams, and not a lot
>of invested in the art and science of communications.  That said, I
>still want a method that can tie me into various networks to not only
>pull information, but also to share information for the benefit of a
>larger group.  I want something that is not internet-dependent, but is
>internet-enabled.  
> 
>In the end. .  I need a lot of help.
> 
>Mitch
> 
> 
>-----Original Message-----
>From: HamGateNY <hamgateny-bounces at n2nov.net> On Behalf Of Charles J.
>Hargrove
>Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 23:28
>To: hamgateny at n2nov.net
>Subject: Re: [HamGateNY] Welcome to HamGateNY
> 
>So far we have seen introductions from:
>KA1NJL, K2JJT, WW2BSA, KB2AJM and AJ2A.
> 
>How about the rest of this 92 person group?
>What is your set-up or what will it be?
>What software, hardware, services, etc?
>Let us all help each other to get things going.
> 
>On 11/5/2020 11:06 AM, Charles J. Hargrove wrote:
> 
>      
>           
> 
>            
>Since the merger of the WNYPG mailing list into the HamGateNY list, we 
>       
>            
> now have 87 members (some who were on both lists).  This would be a 
>       
>            
> great opportunity to introduce yourselves.  Give us your callsign, 
>       
>            
> what area of NY State (or outside of it), what kind of packet system 
>       
>            
> you are running, etc.
>       
>            
> Let's use this list as a request-for-help and sharing of 
>       
>            
> knowledge/projects.
>       
>            
> 
>       
>            
> I will start:
>       
>            
> - N2NOV
>       
>            
> - Staten Island, NYC
>       
>            
> - EmComm lead for ARES/RACES during 9/11, 2003 Blackout, etc
>       
>            
> - Founder/President of NYC-ARECS (
>       
>            http://www.nyc-arecs.org)
>       
>            
> - running JNOS system since 1998 starting on DOS and now Linux
>       
>            
> - NY State 44Net/
>       
>            AMPR.org coordinator
>       
>            
> - IT field since 1989 (databases, networking, help desk, web hosting)
>       
>            
> - ran for Congress as a write-in twice 
>       
>            
> (
>       
>            http://www.HargroveForCongress.us)
>       
>            
> - Secretary of the Staten Island Libertarian Party
>       
>            
> 
>       
>            
> 
>      
>           
> 
>--
>Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
>NYC-ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.
> 
>NYC-ARECS/RACES Nets 147.360/107.2 PL
>ARnewsline Broadcast Mon. @ 8:00PM
>NYC-ARECS Weekly Net Mon. @ 8:30PM
>http://www.nyc-arecs.org
> 
>NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM on
>7.036 Mhz USB (alt 3.536)/1500 hz waterfall spot; MFSK-16 or 32
> 
>"Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the
>walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders."
>- Ronald Reagan
> 
>"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus
> 
>"Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying (The work praises the man.)
> 
>"No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services
>it provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald
>Reagan
> 
> 
> 
>
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://n2nov.net/pipermail/hamgateny_n2nov.net/attachments/20201130/e65bb6bb/attachment.htm>