[HamGateNY] Welcome to HamGateNY

Mon Nov 16 10:53:01 EST 2020

>
> Internet to help carry between those areas where a direct RF connection
> may not be possible

I do understand that.  I'm just worried about the idea of being so
dependent on public wired and wireless infrastructure.

So I'm learning a lot myself about sensor/IoT and RF...

I work with ZigBee but it doesn't really scale across a regions.  802.15.4g
helps a little but I'm not really sure the mesh strategies of Wi-SUN have
scaled that well, either.  They're better, but some of the utility
installations around the country have not really gone very well in terms of
bandwidth and performance.  But I like these IoT-like approaches because
the hardware tends to be cheap.  LoRa looks interesting, too, but I don't
know much about it.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:50 AM Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM (ex. KD2PLE) <
andrew at kb2ajm.us> wrote:

> Hi Chris, WZ2B.
>
> I have a few comments and ideas in ref to your post below.
>
> First, I love your ideas both on networking and on IoT. I haven't gotten
> to the point skill-wise yet as to design my own units based on individual
> chips myself just yet (I do read some TI and other manufacturers specs to
> learn) but I hope to get there someday myself someday. In the meantime I am
> relegated to playing with Arduinos and RPis as my starting points for IoT,
> sensors, etc. and with my house "wired" using Samsung "SmartThings" (all
> Zigbee and Z-Wave.) So I'm learning a lot myself about sensor/IoT and RF...
>
> With regards to networking, I agree that the whole "purpose" of our
> ventures are ultimately to again surplant the need internet connectivity if
> and where possible - a fully RF network would be a wonderful thing to have
> once again...
>
> However even though I agree it's nowhere near the same thing, as is
> usually the case, industry and politics have stolen ideas from the
> volunteer tinkerers who invented it, and are focusing their efforts on
> things like community broadband + WISPs (which still won't reach more rural
> areas like some near me) and FirstNet, which has a goal of covering 98% of
> the populated US area with Cellular including high-speed data applications
> for emergency services. The downside of this obviously the reliance on a
> monopoly centrally controlled network that relies heavily on a on physical
> infrastructure, and still won't cover some of the rural areas like I live
> in (we still have cellular dead zones and our County OEMS with their
> wonderfully engineered, brand new 14-tower linked system still can't get a
> signal to some parts of our area...)
>
> And so while Hams still see the need and think contingency-wise, and SOME
> at the County/ State (RACES) and occasionally Federal levels still
> acknowledge our usefulness, some egos feel we're just an outdated, outmoded
> bunch of hobbyists whom they don't understand invented or trial tested most
> of the technologies they take for granted today.
>
> I personally am one if those just getting into the hobby, and see a
> marriage of technologies possible, for the benefits of all parts. Internet
> to help carry between those areas where a direct RF connection .ay not be
> possible or feasible (like my area, for example,) and RF wherever possible
> both for access, fun, and for redundancy/resiliency for when (not if) the
> Internet goes down (or even gets congested, like DDoS attacks or the SQL
> Slammer work if anyone remembers that - I was in IT + Voice Telecom at the
> time...)
>
> Overall that's why I and I think most of us are here - seeing the
> possibilities of the marriage between RF (Ham) and the internet (the
> "44net" part of things...)
>
> Lastly, my web hosting and IT businesses are on the side, but I've been
> striving to get a few pages built on relevant domain names, and to help
> develop a central repository of tools, history, FORUMS (like we don't
> already have enough to keep up with,) etc. Stuff like Tadd Torborg's
> (KA2DEW) history is important stuff. If anyone has anything else to
> contribute or knows where there is something they'd like to see on such a
> site, please let me know.
>
> Just my opinions + ideas...
>
> 73,. AJM, KB2AJM
>
>
>
> Get BlueMail for Android <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=16117>
> On Nov 12, 2020, at 11:07 AM, Christopher Piggott <cpiggott at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I know TCP/IP is a heavy-overhead protocol,
>>
>>
>>
>> Just some food for thought here, but it's worth taking a look at the
>> Wi-SUN standard, if for no other reason than educational purposes.  Wi-SUN
>> is a collection of protocols put together as a stack for the utility
>> industry. The key elements are COAP and IPv6 running on top of an 802.15.4g
>> mesh  network.  If you're familiar with 802.15.4 (zigbee, etc) "g" is not
>> that different except it's specified for 900 MHz in addition to 2.4 GHz,
>> and they tuned some of the timings to allow for a greater number of nodes
>> and longer propagation delays (longer paths).  They also pull in some
>> dynamic routing algorithms perhaps more appropriate for the medium.
>>
>> It has long been my dream to build a ham/packet radio out of an
>> integrated ARM RF chip.  Currently I'm working with one from T.I. called
>> the CC1352P.  That chip supports both 2.4 GHz and 900 MHz (though not quite
>> at the same time).  I have this dream of a <$50 packet node (maybe even
>> <$25) that's so cheap we can just flood regions with them - convince every
>> ham to put one up on their property, and even try to get some grants from
>> the 44.* IP address sale to help kickstart it.  My vision for this would be
>> kind of like what we did with the NEDA network in the 90s - dedicated,
>> protected backbone links, separate from user inks.
>>
>> My goal, though, would be 100% RF.  Back in the 90s, from here in
>> Rochester, I could chat (type) with other hams as far away as Maine and New
>> Jersey, and way up into Toronto and Coburg, entirely via radio.  It was all
>> VHF/UHF.  It supported TCP/IP over AX.25 (and some variant of Netrom).  It
>> worked because we had engineers who carefully designed each of the links as
>> well as their timing.  It was amazing.  I got distracted by other things
>> for a while and when I stepped back into packet I found out that the
>> majority of links now depended on the internet.  IMO that's just wrong - it
>> defeats the purpose, and it cancels out any 'emergency communications' role
>> we may have at one time had (and believe me it was real, the emergency
>> management offices in New York as well as other states followed what we
>> were doing closely and let us use some of their sites and other resources).
>>
>> Someday I want to get back to that.  My idea on how to do it is a cheap
>> integrated packet radio, and just put them up everywhere.  Take a look at
>> what electric utilities are doing with AMI networks.
>>
>> If you want to know some of the history of "where we were", Tadd Torborg
>> (KA2DEW) has done a pretty good job of preserving the history  here
>> <http://www.torborg.com/ka2dew/packet/neda/neda.htm> ... you can see
>> some of the maps of our network  here
>> <http://www.torborg.com/ka2dew/packet/neda/quarterly_5_1.pdf> but I'm
>> actually having trouble getting that link to load (slow web server).
>>
>> My personal wish is that when it comes to packet radio we'd get back to
>> thinking this way.
>>
>> --Chris, WZ2B
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 9:18 PM Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM (ex. KD2PLE) <
>> andrew at kb2ajm.us> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Mitch KE7WWT.
>>>
>>> Without drooling too much, I just wanted to say that your extremely
>>> ambitious project(s) mirror my own interests in being able to
>>> "INTER-network" and converge these vital (and fun) communications
>>> technologies - voice, data/packet/digi, VoIP, APRS, RF, terrestrial, etc.
>>>
>>> You guys up north may be some of the poorest counties in NYS, but down
>>> here in the rural Catskills we have some simar statistics too (just not
>>> ones to brag about.) I and a few dispersed others also have ambitious ideas
>>> that many surrounding us are either put off by or simply not interested in.
>>> And so while a few projects of communal interest are making some progress
>>> regionally (ex. Winlink, an ARES/RACES repeater, some APRS digipeaters and
>>> I-gates, etc.) others such as myself have been doing similar to you -
>>> trying to build it all ourselves out of shallow pockets and an even smaller
>>> lot of property.
>>>
>>> I find your portable C&C center very interesting, and similar to my
>>> (thus far more) meager and slightly larger 12U rolling 19" rack case I've
>>> built for ARES and personal use. The entire idea of being able to
>>> congregate info from a multitude of sources and potentially do so two-way
>>> over range without the requirement of failable infrastructure is exactly
>>> what interests me as well (too many years of IT and EMS, including working
>>> in NYC before, during and after 9/11.)
>>>
>>> So while - with the exception of my SignaLink USB on HF - my setup is
>>> (mostly) analog so far, my goal as time and finances allow is to expand
>>> this into the exact same voice/packet INTER-networked type of set-up you
>>> have in mind, both stationary/base as well as portable.
>>>
>>> I would definitely be interested in chatting as to where you are and
>>> where you see your next steps to be going, and if I can offer any
>>> assistance from my background I would be happy to do so - AND THAT OFFER
>>> GOES TO ANYBODY ELSE WHERE.
>>>
>>> With regards to internet connectivity, TCP/IP, data and VoIP equipment,
>>> I have (home) business-grade internet with a 13 usable block of public IPs,
>>> as well as considerably more TCP/IP, VoIP and security equipment (Cisco,
>>> Ubiquiti, etc.) at the moment than I do Ham, so while I know TCP/IP is a
>>> heavy-overhead protocol, if any projects of interest have the need to (for
>>> example) convert an incoming RF analog voice or fax signal into TCP/IP to
>>> send out over the internet - or to use VoIP to link RFs at 2 locations over
>>> internet (sort of like EchoLink does,) those are some of the ideas I've
>>> been toying around with...
>>>
>>> Enough for now. Glad to make everybody's acquaintance, and TTYS.
>>>
>>> 73 again,
>>>
>>> Andrew J. McLeod, KB2AJM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Get BlueMail for Android <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=16117>
>>> On Nov 11, 2020, at 6:52 AM, "Maurice A. Mitchell - KE7WWT" <
>>> maurice at maurice-mitchell.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> KE7WWT
>>>> Jefferson County NY (North of Syracuse) located just a stone's throw away from the fence at Fort Drum.  Retired Army - 26 years, 7 months, 5 days and 2 hours.
>>>>
>>>> I run the WINLINK Packet system and serve on the both ARES and RACES.  I am a DHS SHARES operator with ALE/Voice and HF RMS WINLINK.  I am also a MARS operator.
>>>>
>>>> I start this project almost a year ago and thanks to changes dealing with COVID, I have ran out of time, but hope to have things change soon.  I wanted to use the 44Net as a way to combine, in one box or two (ammo cans) the ability to have a mobile/portable node that serves Broadband Hamnet, APRS I-GATE and digi, remote control of base station radios, DMR and maybe D-STAR hotspots, and of course the ability to link and interface Packet.
>>>>
>>>> Jefferson and its surrounding counties (Saint Lawrence and Lewis) are the three poorest counties in the State, and as such, there is very little activity that requires expenditure of money.  As such, I have taken the "build it and they will come" mentality. In the end, it does not work - This is baofeng country.  Not a lot of hams, and not a lot of invested in the art and science of communications.  That said, I still want a method that can tie me into various networks to not only pull information, but also to share information for the benefit of a larger group.  I want something that is not internet-dependent, but is internet-enabled.
>>>>
>>>> In the end. .  I need a lot of help.
>>>>
>>>> Mitch
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: HamGateNY <hamgateny-bounces at n2nov.net> On Behalf Of Charles J. Hargrove
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 23:28
>>>> To: hamgateny at n2nov.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [HamGateNY] Welcome to HamGateNY
>>>>
>>>> So far we have seen introductions from:
>>>> KA1NJL, K2JJT, WW2BSA, KB2AJM and AJ2A.
>>>>
>>>> How about the rest of this 92 person group?
>>>> What is your set-up or what will it be?
>>>> What software, hardware, services, etc?
>>>> Let us all help each other to get things going.
>>>>
>>>> On 11/5/2020 11:06 AM, Charles J. Hargrove wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>         Since the merger of the WNYPG mailing list into the HamGateNY list, we
>>>>>
>>>>>  now have 87 members (some who were on both lists).  This would be a
>>>>>
>>>>>  great opportunity to introduce yourselves.  Give us your callsign,
>>>>>
>>>>>  what area of NY State (or outside of it), what kind of packet system
>>>>>
>>>>>  you are running, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Let's use this list as a request-for-help and sharing of
>>>>>
>>>>>  knowledge/projects.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  I will start:
>>>>>
>>>>>  - N2NOV
>>>>>
>>>>>  - Staten Island, NYC
>>>>>
>>>>>  - EmComm lead for ARES/RACES during 9/11, 2003 Blackout, etc
>>>>>
>>>>>  - Founder/President of NYC-ARECS (
>>>>>        http://www.nyc-arecs.org)
>>>>>
>>>>>  - running JNOS system since 1998 starting on DOS and now Linux
>>>>>
>>>>>  - NY State 44Net/
>>>>>        AMPR.org coordinator
>>>>>
>>>>>  - IT field since 1989 (databases, networking, help desk, web hosting)
>>>>>
>>>>>  - ran for Congress as a write-in twice
>>>>>
>>>>>  (
>>>>>        http://www.HargroveForCongress.us)
>>>>>
>>>>>  - Secretary of the Staten Island Libertarian Party
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
>>>> NYC-ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.
>>>>
>>>> NYC-ARECS/RACES Nets 147.360/107.2 PL
>>>> ARnewsline Broadcast Mon. @ 8:00PM
>>>> NYC-ARECS Weekly Net Mon. @ 8:30PM
>>>> http://www.nyc-arecs.org
>>>>
>>>> NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM on 7.036 Mhz USB (alt 3.536)/1500 hz waterfall spot; MFSK-16 or 32
>>>>
>>>> "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan
>>>>
>>>> "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus
>>>>
>>>> "Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying (The work praises the man.)
>>>>
>>>> "No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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