From coreyreichle at gmail.com  Tue Jan  3 08:14:51 2017
From: coreyreichle at gmail.com (Corey Reichle)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 08:14:51 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Mystic BBS on packet
In-Reply-To: <1482857238.30184.1.camel@n1uro>
References: <CALvFBuwPU-4Bn4Jb5x6HwU7fHZ3+iqnR68dJmnmwvZEfBTaykA@mail.gmail.com>
	<30e0b8759c25aa1b0acb0ec6666813d9.squirrel@host.n2nov.net>
	<CALvFBuyzHY=iv73LZJ+wKJjNT6BKbOjhYc4Yj+xxP3frBo6u1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<1482857238.30184.1.camel@n1uro>
Message-ID: <CALvFBuyYYbD2FWwPrWr0cH-9HD1hs2Q2eP5FSOWYtByUJumAWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, so not meaning to be contrary, but this is the primary reason I've not
delved further into this process.

Why are we using a custom rip protocol?  What is the benefit?  Is there any
forward momentum to get this added to the debian repos, or a
debian/centos/etc repo that this can be installed from?

This seems like a whole lot of complexity, for what otherwise is a 90
second config edit for something like network-manager, which is present in
just about every Linux distro out there.

Instead of IPIP tunnels, why not just a b2b IPSEC tunnel?

I mean, honestly, I do this sort of stuff by trade, on a daily basis, and
for a smallish network, looking to expand, this seems overly complex, and
not particularly maintainable.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Brian <n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org> wrote:

> Corey;
>
> On Tue, 2016-12-27 at 11:33 -0500, Corey Reichle wrote:
> > Just let me know what needs to get done.  I'm not entirely sure how to
> > IPEncap in the Linux AX25 stack, but I'm open to learning if you point
> > me to some docs/info.
> >
> https://n1uro.ampr.org/linuxconf/dotun.html
>
>
> --
>
> 73 de Brian - N1URO
> email: (see above)
> Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
> Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
> Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
> Linux Amateur Radio Services
> axMail-Fax & URONode
> http://uronode.sourceforge.net
> http://axmail.sourceforge.net
> AmprNet coordinator for:
> Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
> Maryland, Massachusetts,
> New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania,
> Rhode Island, and Vermont.
>
>
>
>
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From n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org  Tue Jan  3 09:58:57 2017
From: n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org (Brian)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 09:58:57 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Mystic BBS on packet
In-Reply-To: <CALvFBuyYYbD2FWwPrWr0cH-9HD1hs2Q2eP5FSOWYtByUJumAWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALvFBuwPU-4Bn4Jb5x6HwU7fHZ3+iqnR68dJmnmwvZEfBTaykA@mail.gmail.com>
	<30e0b8759c25aa1b0acb0ec6666813d9.squirrel@host.n2nov.net>
	<CALvFBuyzHY=iv73LZJ+wKJjNT6BKbOjhYc4Yj+xxP3frBo6u1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<1482857238.30184.1.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuyYYbD2FWwPrWr0cH-9HD1hs2Q2eP5FSOWYtByUJumAWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1483455537.25456.13.camel@n1uro>

Hello Corey;

On Tue, 2017-01-03 at 08:14 -0500, Corey Reichle wrote:
> Ok, so not meaning to be contrary, but this is the primary reason I've
> not delved further into this process.
> 
I think you're missing out on the purpose of this.

> Why are we using a custom rip protocol?  What is the benefit?  Is
> there any forward momentum to get this added to the debian repos, or a
> debian/centos/etc repo that this can be installed from?
> 
It's not as big of a deal as you may think. I'll explain it in more
detail below.

> This seems like a whole lot of complexity, for what otherwise is a 90
> second config edit for something like network-manager, which is
> present in just about every Linux distro out there.

> Instead of IPIP tunnels, why not just a b2b IPSEC tunnel?
> 
> I mean, honestly, I do this sort of stuff by trade, on a daily basis,
> and for a smallish network, looking to expand, this seems overly
> complex, and not particularly maintainable.

I'm a network engineer by trade as well and it's perfectly clear what's
going on. AmprNet has always used protocol 4 (ipencap) as it's main
routing protocol. Years ago this wasn't much of an ordeal however with
SAFE (Source Address FiltEring) by ISPs and no native means to
auto-update routing for the many who are using dynamic IPs, one of the
newer systems in place is a custom RIP routing system which handshakes
with the amprnet portal.

The munge script system still works but it's slow. A user on a dynamic
IP may have their IP changed by their ISP and one would now know how to
route to it until the next munge cycle. Now a dynamic hosted point can
enter their gateway info in as a dyndns host and before RIP is sent, the
portal verifies the IP to that dyndns host and adds it to the rip
broadcast... so it's up to date.

RIP is then sent from UCSD out via protocol 4 to all the endpoints so
that those on dynamic IPs can maintain their routing to the rest of the
network. If the commercial IP changes, you need something to keep up
with that and the amprnet portal does this for us all, and updates the
encap file with the proper information which the RIP server at UCSD
uses.

It's more about automating route info for dynamic hosts than it is the
network protocol used... and since protocol 4 is the protocol of choice
by UCSD, that's what's used to transmit the RIP. One could use ipsec or
even OpenVPN but still the routing information would be lagged through
the munge system unless they're using another host as a default route.

I hope this clarifies a few things for you.

-- 
I don't have to worry about body fitness in 2017. All I do is 
show my body to itself in the mirror and it throws plenty of
fits.
--------
73 de Brian - N1URO
email: (see above)
Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
Linux Amateur Radio Services
axMail-Fax & URONode
http://uronode.sourceforge.net
http://axmail.sourceforge.net
AmprNet coordinator for:
Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
Maryland, Massachusetts, 
New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, 
Rhode Island, and Vermont.
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From n2nov at n2nov.net  Tue Jan 24 15:27:09 2017
From: n2nov at n2nov.net (Charles J. Hargrove)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 15:27:09 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Ian Wade's NOSintro Book Online
Message-ID: <0548d83a-84de-67a1-e731-aa881a271808@n2nov.net>

The author of the NOSintro book has made it available online as
a free PDF file at http://www.g3nrw.net/NOSintro/

-- 
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
NYC ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.

NYC-ARECS/RACES Net Mon. @ 8:30PM 449.025/123.0 PL
http://www.nyc-arecs.org and http://www.nyc-skywarn.org

NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM
on 7.036 Mhz USB/1500 hz waterfall spot; Olivia 8/500 check-ins

"Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls 
topped
by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus

"Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying
(The work praises the man.)

"No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it
provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan



From w2dab at w2dab.com  Tue Jan 24 15:34:34 2017
From: w2dab at w2dab.com (David Bamford)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 15:34:34 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Ian Wade's NOSintro Book Online
In-Reply-To: <0548d83a-84de-67a1-e731-aa881a271808@n2nov.net>
References: <0548d83a-84de-67a1-e731-aa881a271808@n2nov.net>
Message-ID: <70EB417F-D3A4-4AAE-A50C-7EA1207D6662@w2dab.com>

Thank you Charles!



"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - A. Einstein 

_______________________________

David Bamford
917-704-7888
w2dab at w2dab.com <mailto:w2dab at w2dab.com>
http://w2dab.bamford.net/ <http://w2dab.bamford.net/>

FCC Lic. W2DAB
ARRL Technical Specialist
Grid Square FN30as
Echolink  99581
FISTS #15728
SKCC #4240
NAQCC #3428
GQRP Member

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From n2nov at n2nov.net  Thu Jan 26 21:23:31 2017
From: n2nov at n2nov.net (Charles J. Hargrove)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 21:23:31 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
Message-ID: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>

As of tonight (do you see yourself here?):
44.68.20.1	ke4fsk.ampr.org ke4fsk
44.68.41.1	n2nov.ampr.org n2nov
44.68.41.2	gw.n2nov.ampr.org gw.n2nov
44.68.41.65	kc2qhv.ampr.org kc2qhv
44.68.41.66	gw.kc2qhv.ampr.org gw.kc2qhv
44.68.220.1	n2kgc.ampr.org n2kgc
44.68.220.2	flexnet.n2kgc.ampr.org flexnet.n2kgc
44.68.220.3	w2rgi.ampr.org w2rgi
44.68.220.4	flexnet.w2rgi.ampr.org flexnet.w2rgi

Need a DNS entry?  Send me your info to include in the database.

-- 
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
NYC ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.

NYC-ARECS/RACES Net Mon. @ 8:30PM 449.025/123.0 PL
http://www.nyc-arecs.org and http://www.nyc-skywarn.org

NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM
on 7.036 Mhz USB/1500 hz waterfall spot; Olivia 8/500 check-ins

"Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls 
topped
by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus

"Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying
(The work praises the man.)

"No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it
provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan



From w2dab at w2dab.com  Thu Jan 26 23:36:38 2017
From: w2dab at w2dab.com (David Bamford)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 23:36:38 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
Message-ID: <302E68F4-1DA4-413F-8695-08D6F8F481EB@w2dab.com>

Sorry Charles:

What do I need to send you?

Domain?  Hosting company info?

Thanks for any info and your expertise and patience.

Best,


David



"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - A. Einstein 

_______________________________

David Bamford
917-704-7888
w2dab at w2dab.com <mailto:w2dab at w2dab.com>
http://w2dab.bamford.net/ <http://w2dab.bamford.net/>

FCC Lic. W2DAB
ARRL Technical Specialist
Grid Square FN30as
Echolink  99581
FISTS #15728
SKCC #4240
NAQCC #3428
GQRP Member

> On Jan 26, 2017, at 9:23 PM, Charles J. Hargrove <n2nov at n2nov.net> wrote:
> 
> As of tonight (do you see yourself here?):
> 44.68.20.1	ke4fsk.ampr.org ke4fsk
> 44.68.41.1	n2nov.ampr.org n2nov
> 44.68.41.2	gw.n2nov.ampr.org gw.n2nov
> 44.68.41.65	kc2qhv.ampr.org kc2qhv
> 44.68.41.66	gw.kc2qhv.ampr.org gw.kc2qhv
> 44.68.220.1	n2kgc.ampr.org n2kgc
> 44.68.220.2	flexnet.n2kgc.ampr.org flexnet.n2kgc
> 44.68.220.3	w2rgi.ampr.org w2rgi
> 44.68.220.4	flexnet.w2rgi.ampr.org flexnet.w2rgi
> 
> Need a DNS entry?  Send me your info to include in the database.
> 
> -- 
> Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
> NYC ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.
> 
> NYC-ARECS/RACES Net Mon. @ 8:30PM 449.025/123.0 PL
> http://www.nyc-arecs.org and http://www.nyc-skywarn.org
> 
> NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM
> on 7.036 Mhz USB/1500 hz waterfall spot; Olivia 8/500 check-ins
> 
> "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped
> by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan
> 
> "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus
> 
> "Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying
> (The work praises the man.)
> 
> "No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it
> provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan
> 
> 

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From joe at cupano.com  Fri Jan 27 02:07:33 2017
From: joe at cupano.com (Joe Cupano)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 02:07:33 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
Message-ID: <41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>

Yes I do please.

44.68.86.1  ne2z.ampr.org ne2z

Thank you,

- Joe, NE2Z

On 01/26/2017 09:23 PM, Charles J. Hargrove wrote:
> As of tonight (do you see yourself here?):
> 44.68.20.1    ke4fsk.ampr.org ke4fsk
> 44.68.41.1    n2nov.ampr.org n2nov
> 44.68.41.2    gw.n2nov.ampr.org gw.n2nov
> 44.68.41.65    kc2qhv.ampr.org kc2qhv
> 44.68.41.66    gw.kc2qhv.ampr.org gw.kc2qhv
> 44.68.220.1    n2kgc.ampr.org n2kgc
> 44.68.220.2    flexnet.n2kgc.ampr.org flexnet.n2kgc
> 44.68.220.3    w2rgi.ampr.org w2rgi
> 44.68.220.4    flexnet.w2rgi.ampr.org flexnet.w2rgi
>
> Need a DNS entry?  Send me your info to include in the database.
>




From n2nov at n2nov.net  Fri Jan 27 08:31:35 2017
From: n2nov at n2nov.net (Charles J. Hargrove)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 08:31:35 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
Message-ID: <f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>

No problem.  What is the public IP address for the gateway?

On 1/27/2017 2:07 AM, Joe Cupano wrote:
> Yes I do please.
>
> 44.68.86.1  ne2z.ampr.org ne2z
>
> Thank you,
>
> - Joe, NE2Z
>
> On 01/26/2017 09:23 PM, Charles J. Hargrove wrote:
>> As of tonight (do you see yourself here?):
>> 44.68.20.1    ke4fsk.ampr.org ke4fsk
>> 44.68.41.1    n2nov.ampr.org n2nov
>> 44.68.41.2    gw.n2nov.ampr.org gw.n2nov
>> 44.68.41.65    kc2qhv.ampr.org kc2qhv
>> 44.68.41.66    gw.kc2qhv.ampr.org gw.kc2qhv
>> 44.68.220.1    n2kgc.ampr.org n2kgc
>> 44.68.220.2    flexnet.n2kgc.ampr.org flexnet.n2kgc
>> 44.68.220.3    w2rgi.ampr.org w2rgi
>> 44.68.220.4    flexnet.w2rgi.ampr.org flexnet.w2rgi
>>
>> Need a DNS entry?  Send me your info to include in the database.


-- 
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
NYC ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.

NYC-ARECS/RACES Net Mon. @ 8:30PM 449.025/123.0 PL
http://www.nyc-arecs.org and http://www.nyc-skywarn.org

NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM
on 7.036 Mhz USB/1500 hz waterfall spot; Olivia 8/500 check-ins

"Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls 
topped
by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus

"Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying
(The work praises the man.)

"No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it
provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan



From n2nov at n2nov.net  Fri Jan 27 08:33:46 2017
From: n2nov at n2nov.net (Charles J. Hargrove)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 08:33:46 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <302E68F4-1DA4-413F-8695-08D6F8F481EB@w2dab.com>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<302E68F4-1DA4-413F-8695-08D6F8F481EB@w2dab.com>
Message-ID: <bec90cff-3516-06ce-61b9-3b9f96eed073@n2nov.net>

1 - public IP address or dynamic IP hosting name
2 - callsign only or xxx.callsign before ampr.org?

On 1/26/2017 11:36 PM, David Bamford wrote:
> Sorry Charles:
>
> What do I need to send you?
>
> Domain?  Hosting company info?
>
> Thanks for any info and your expertise and patience.
>
> Best,
>
>
> David

-- 
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
NYC ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.

NYC-ARECS/RACES Net Mon. @ 8:30PM 449.025/123.0 PL
http://www.nyc-arecs.org and http://www.nyc-skywarn.org

NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM
on 7.036 Mhz USB/1500 hz waterfall spot; Olivia 8/500 check-ins

"Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls 
topped
by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus

"Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying
(The work praises the man.)

"No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it
provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan



From coreyreichle at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 08:35:17 2017
From: coreyreichle at gmail.com (Corey Reichle)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 08:35:17 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
Message-ID: <CALvFBuzJrWuBjAPfmz2D+9qjw22gUdPDDi3C4K88asBgwiujaA@mail.gmail.com>

44.68.172.1 - border.kc2ugv.ampr.org

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:31 AM, Charles J. Hargrove <n2nov at n2nov.net>
wrote:

> No problem.  What is the public IP address for the gateway?
>
>
> On 1/27/2017 2:07 AM, Joe Cupano wrote:
>
>> Yes I do please.
>>
>> 44.68.86.1  ne2z.ampr.org ne2z
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> - Joe, NE2Z
>>
>> On 01/26/2017 09:23 PM, Charles J. Hargrove wrote:
>>
>>> As of tonight (do you see yourself here?):
>>> 44.68.20.1    ke4fsk.ampr.org ke4fsk
>>> 44.68.41.1    n2nov.ampr.org n2nov
>>> 44.68.41.2    gw.n2nov.ampr.org gw.n2nov
>>> 44.68.41.65    kc2qhv.ampr.org kc2qhv
>>> 44.68.41.66    gw.kc2qhv.ampr.org gw.kc2qhv
>>> 44.68.220.1    n2kgc.ampr.org n2kgc
>>> 44.68.220.2    flexnet.n2kgc.ampr.org flexnet.n2kgc
>>> 44.68.220.3    w2rgi.ampr.org w2rgi
>>> 44.68.220.4    flexnet.w2rgi.ampr.org flexnet.w2rgi
>>>
>>> Need a DNS entry?  Send me your info to include in the database.
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
> NYC ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.
>
> NYC-ARECS/RACES Net Mon. @ 8:30PM 449.025/123.0 PL
> http://www.nyc-arecs.org and http://www.nyc-skywarn.org
>
> NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM
> on 7.036 Mhz USB/1500 hz waterfall spot; Olivia 8/500 check-ins
>
> "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls
> topped
> by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan
>
> "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus
>
> "Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying
> (The work praises the man.)
>
> "No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it
> provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan
>
>
>
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From n2nov at n2nov.net  Fri Jan 27 08:38:19 2017
From: n2nov at n2nov.net (Charles J. Hargrove)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 08:38:19 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <CALvFBuzJrWuBjAPfmz2D+9qjw22gUdPDDi3C4K88asBgwiujaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<CALvFBuzJrWuBjAPfmz2D+9qjw22gUdPDDi3C4K88asBgwiujaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ae7eaaa1-431b-8b41-0ba0-410c1543a7a2@n2nov.net>

Corey,
What is you public IP address?

On 1/27/2017 8:35 AM, Corey Reichle wrote:
> 44.68.172.1 - border.kc2ugv.ampr.org <http://border.kc2ugv.ampr.org>

-- 
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
NYC ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.

NYC-ARECS/RACES Net Mon. @ 8:30PM 449.025/123.0 PL
http://www.nyc-arecs.org and http://www.nyc-skywarn.org

NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM
on 7.036 Mhz USB/1500 hz waterfall spot; Olivia 8/500 check-ins

"Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls 
topped
by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus

"Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying
(The work praises the man.)

"No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it
provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan



From coreyreichle at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 08:40:31 2017
From: coreyreichle at gmail.com (Corey Reichle)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 08:40:31 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <ae7eaaa1-431b-8b41-0ba0-410c1543a7a2@n2nov.net>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<CALvFBuzJrWuBjAPfmz2D+9qjw22gUdPDDi3C4K88asBgwiujaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ae7eaaa1-431b-8b41-0ba0-410c1543a7a2@n2nov.net>
Message-ID: <CALvFBuzNuPKUC9dmkDFQB--FPVy4CRQvnhF1MK8jLMOouiw=PQ@mail.gmail.com>

There is no public assigned, aside from the public AMPR address.

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Charles J. Hargrove <n2nov at n2nov.net>
wrote:

> Corey,
> What is you public IP address?
>
> On 1/27/2017 8:35 AM, Corey Reichle wrote:
>
>> 44.68.172.1 - border.kc2ugv.ampr.org <http://border.kc2ugv.ampr.org>
>>
>
> --
> Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
> NYC ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.
>
> NYC-ARECS/RACES Net Mon. @ 8:30PM 449.025/123.0 PL
> http://www.nyc-arecs.org and http://www.nyc-skywarn.org
>
> NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM
> on 7.036 Mhz USB/1500 hz waterfall spot; Olivia 8/500 check-ins
>
> "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls
> topped
> by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan
>
> "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus
>
> "Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying
> (The work praises the man.)
>
> "No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it
> provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan
>
>
>
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From n2nov at n2nov.net  Fri Jan 27 08:46:26 2017
From: n2nov at n2nov.net (Charles J. Hargrove)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 08:46:26 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <CALvFBuzNuPKUC9dmkDFQB--FPVy4CRQvnhF1MK8jLMOouiw=PQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<CALvFBuzJrWuBjAPfmz2D+9qjw22gUdPDDi3C4K88asBgwiujaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ae7eaaa1-431b-8b41-0ba0-410c1543a7a2@n2nov.net>
	<CALvFBuzNuPKUC9dmkDFQB--FPVy4CRQvnhF1MK8jLMOouiw=PQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1b575dc1-45ce-b573-9c8e-b02f71ef0a23@n2nov.net>

The 44 Ampr address is not reachable from the internet without a
public IP address gateway.  I would not be able to telnet into it
or send you email and bulletins there otherwise.

On 1/27/2017 8:40 AM, Corey Reichle wrote:
> There is no public assigned, aside from the public AMPR address.
>
> On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Charles J. Hargrove <n2nov at n2nov.net
> <mailto:n2nov at n2nov.net>> wrote:
>
>     Corey,
>     What is you public IP address?
>
>     On 1/27/2017 8:35 AM, Corey Reichle wrote:
>
>         44.68.172.1 - border.kc2ugv.ampr.org
>         <http://border.kc2ugv.ampr.org> <http://border.kc2ugv.ampr.org>

-- 
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
NYC ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.

NYC-ARECS/RACES Net Mon. @ 8:30PM 449.025/123.0 PL
http://www.nyc-arecs.org and http://www.nyc-skywarn.org

NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM
on 7.036 Mhz USB/1500 hz waterfall spot; Olivia 8/500 check-ins

"Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls 
topped
by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus

"Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying
(The work praises the man.)

"No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it
provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan



From n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org  Fri Jan 27 11:07:00 2017
From: n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org (Brian)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 11:07:00 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <1b575dc1-45ce-b573-9c8e-b02f71ef0a23@n2nov.net>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<CALvFBuzJrWuBjAPfmz2D+9qjw22gUdPDDi3C4K88asBgwiujaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ae7eaaa1-431b-8b41-0ba0-410c1543a7a2@n2nov.net>
	<CALvFBuzNuPKUC9dmkDFQB--FPVy4CRQvnhF1MK8jLMOouiw=PQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b575dc1-45ce-b573-9c8e-b02f71ef0a23@n2nov.net>
Message-ID: <1485533220.26152.4.camel@n1uro>

Charles et al;

On Fri, 2017-01-27 at 08:46 -0500, Charles J. Hargrove wrote:
> The 44 Ampr address is not reachable from the internet without a
> public IP address gateway.  I would not be able to telnet into it
> or send you email and bulletins there otherwise.

Also to unlock the route filter at UCSD, a dns entry for the block needs
to be present as well.
-- 
I don't have to worry about body fitness in 2017. All I do is 
show my body to itself in the mirror and it throws plenty of
fits.
--------
73 de Brian - N1URO
email: (see above)
Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
Linux Amateur Radio Services
axMail-Fax & URONode
http://uronode.sourceforge.net
http://axmail.sourceforge.net
AmprNet coordinator for:
Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
Maryland, Massachusetts, 
New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, 
Rhode Island, and Vermont.
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From coreyreichle at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 13:50:56 2017
From: coreyreichle at gmail.com (Corey Reichle)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 13:50:56 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <1b575dc1-45ce-b573-9c8e-b02f71ef0a23@n2nov.net>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<CALvFBuzJrWuBjAPfmz2D+9qjw22gUdPDDi3C4K88asBgwiujaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ae7eaaa1-431b-8b41-0ba0-410c1543a7a2@n2nov.net>
	<CALvFBuzNuPKUC9dmkDFQB--FPVy4CRQvnhF1MK8jLMOouiw=PQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b575dc1-45ce-b573-9c8e-b02f71ef0a23@n2nov.net>
Message-ID: <CALvFBuyvECspMLnz7GaVOTA-z7utJOg4vsa7W8Svk9U_NKFfYg@mail.gmail.com>

What service are you expecting to be able to telnet into?  And, as for
mail, I do not have a smtp gateway running, however, I can get one up and
running, and exposed via border.  Once I have any peers, I can update the
routing path.

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:46 AM, Charles J. Hargrove <n2nov at n2nov.net>
wrote:

> The 44 Ampr address is not reachable from the internet without a
> public IP address gateway.  I would not be able to telnet into it
> or send you email and bulletins there otherwise.
>
> On 1/27/2017 8:40 AM, Corey Reichle wrote:
>
>> There is no public assigned, aside from the public AMPR address.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Charles J. Hargrove <n2nov at n2nov.net
>> <mailto:n2nov at n2nov.net>> wrote:
>>
>>     Corey,
>>     What is you public IP address?
>>
>>     On 1/27/2017 8:35 AM, Corey Reichle wrote:
>>
>>         44.68.172.1 - border.kc2ugv.ampr.org
>>         <http://border.kc2ugv.ampr.org> <http://border.kc2ugv.ampr.org>
>>
>
> --
> Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
> NYC ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.
>
> NYC-ARECS/RACES Net Mon. @ 8:30PM 449.025/123.0 PL
> http://www.nyc-arecs.org and http://www.nyc-skywarn.org
>
> NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM
> on 7.036 Mhz USB/1500 hz waterfall spot; Olivia 8/500 check-ins
>
> "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls
> topped
> by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan
>
> "The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus
>
> "Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying
> (The work praises the man.)
>
> "No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it
> provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan
>
>
>
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From n2nov at n2nov.net  Fri Jan 27 18:19:17 2017
From: n2nov at n2nov.net (Charles J. Hargrove)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 18:19:17 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <1485533220.26152.4.camel@n1uro>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<CALvFBuzJrWuBjAPfmz2D+9qjw22gUdPDDi3C4K88asBgwiujaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ae7eaaa1-431b-8b41-0ba0-410c1543a7a2@n2nov.net>
	<CALvFBuzNuPKUC9dmkDFQB--FPVy4CRQvnhF1MK8jLMOouiw=PQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1b575dc1-45ce-b573-9c8e-b02f71ef0a23@n2nov.net>
	<1485533220.26152.4.camel@n1uro>
Message-ID: <1f4f328d-86cd-de10-1f08-197620e1e0c2@n2nov.net>

Good point.  So, if you have an allocation and want it to be reached by 
others
on the 44Net, you need to have the gateway entry set up with a public IP
address pointing to your subnet, as well as a separate DNS entry for each of
the addresses in your subnet that you want to be reached.  DNS entries must
end with _yourcallsign_.ampr.org and anything can be before your callsign.

On 1/27/2017 11:07 AM, Brian wrote:
> Also to unlock the route filter at UCSD, a dns entry for the block needs
> to be present as well.

-- 
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
NYC ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.

NYC-ARECS/RACES Net Mon. @ 8:30PM 449.025/123.0 PL
http://www.nyc-arecs.org and http://www.nyc-skywarn.org

NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM
on 7.036 Mhz USB/1500 hz waterfall spot; Olivia 8/500 check-ins

"Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls 
topped
by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus

"Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying
(The work praises the man.)

"No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it
provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan



From joe at cupano.com  Mon Jan 30 02:11:09 2017
From: joe at cupano.com (Joe Cupano)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 02:11:09 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
Message-ID: <c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>

This network is currently not reachable via the Internet.

If needed to what GW should I tunnel to ?

- Joe, NE2Z


On 01/27/2017 08:31 AM, Charles J. Hargrove wrote:
> No problem.  What is the public IP address for the gateway?
>
> On 1/27/2017 2:07 AM, Joe Cupano wrote:
>> Yes I do please.
>>
>> 44.68.86.1  ne2z.ampr.org ne2z
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> - Joe, NE2Z
>>
>> On 01/26/2017 09:23 PM, Charles J. Hargrove wrote:
>>> As of tonight (do you see yourself here?):
>>> 44.68.20.1    ke4fsk.ampr.org ke4fsk
>>> 44.68.41.1    n2nov.ampr.org n2nov
>>> 44.68.41.2    gw.n2nov.ampr.org gw.n2nov
>>> 44.68.41.65    kc2qhv.ampr.org kc2qhv
>>> 44.68.41.66    gw.kc2qhv.ampr.org gw.kc2qhv
>>> 44.68.220.1    n2kgc.ampr.org n2kgc
>>> 44.68.220.2    flexnet.n2kgc.ampr.org flexnet.n2kgc
>>> 44.68.220.3    w2rgi.ampr.org w2rgi
>>> 44.68.220.4    flexnet.w2rgi.ampr.org flexnet.w2rgi
>>>
>>> Need a DNS entry?  Send me your info to include in the database.
>
>




From n2nov at n2nov.net  Mon Jan 30 08:16:29 2017
From: n2nov at n2nov.net (Charles J. Hargrove)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:16:29 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
Message-ID: <b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>

If you eventually determine that you are going to connect to a gateway with
a public facing IP address, you need to make sure that it can handle IPIP
encapped routes (Protocol 4).  Many sysops use a Linux machine with 
tunneling
set up and deal with the AMPR-RIPD statement broadcasts.

Read more here - http://wiki.ampr.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_gateway_on_Linux

On 1/30/2017 2:11 AM, Joe Cupano wrote:
> This network is currently not reachable via the Internet.
>
> If needed to what GW should I tunnel to ?
>
> - Joe, NE2Z


-- 
Charles J. Hargrove - N2NOV
NYC ARECS/RACES Citywide Radio Officer/Skywarn Coord.

NYC-ARECS/RACES Net Mon. @ 8:30PM 449.025/123.0 PL
http://www.nyc-arecs.org and http://www.nyc-skywarn.org

NY-NBEMS Net Saturdays @ 10AM & USeast-NBEMS Net Wednesdays @ 7PM
on 7.036 Mhz USB/1500 hz waterfall spot; Olivia 8/500 check-ins

"Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls 
topped
by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders." - Ronald Reagan

"The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates." - Tacitus

"Molann an obair an fear" - Irish Saying
(The work praises the man.)

"No matter how big and powerful government gets, and the many services it
provides, it can never take the place of volunteers." - Ronald Reagan



From joe at cupano.com  Mon Jan 30 10:27:52 2017
From: joe at cupano.com (Joe Cupano)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:27:52 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
Message-ID: <e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>

Thank you.

Is there a reason Open VPN is not used since it is cross platform ?

Fully understand if it is just a matter of history

73,

- Joe, NE2Z


On 01/30/2017 08:16 AM, Charles J. Hargrove wrote:
> If you eventually determine that you are going to connect to a gateway
> with
> a public facing IP address, you need to make sure that it can handle IPIP
> encapped routes (Protocol 4).  Many sysops use a Linux machine with
> tunneling
> set up and deal with the AMPR-RIPD statement broadcasts.
>
> Read more here - http://wiki.ampr.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_gateway_on_Linux
>
> On 1/30/2017 2:11 AM, Joe Cupano wrote:
>> This network is currently not reachable via the Internet.
>>
>> If needed to what GW should I tunnel to ?
>>
>> - Joe, NE2Z
>
>




From coreyreichle at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 10:34:15 2017
From: coreyreichle at gmail.com (Corey Reichle)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:34:15 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
Message-ID: <CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>

That is my question as well.  Even if it is a matter of history, we do not
have to do that "just because".  We can, advance the state of the radio
art, and employ cross-platform, standardized routing protocols which are
much better than anything possible with RIP protocol (ie, OLSR, for
example).

While I might be able to "make it work" on my OpenWRT devices, it would be
a kludge I'd have to rebuild with every new router OS release.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Joe Cupano <joe at cupano.com> wrote:

> Thank you.
>
> Is there a reason Open VPN is not used since it is cross platform ?
>
> Fully understand if it is just a matter of history
>
> 73,
>
> - Joe, NE2Z
>
>
> On 01/30/2017 08:16 AM, Charles J. Hargrove wrote:
> > If you eventually determine that you are going to connect to a gateway
> > with
> > a public facing IP address, you need to make sure that it can handle IPIP
> > encapped routes (Protocol 4).  Many sysops use a Linux machine with
> > tunneling
> > set up and deal with the AMPR-RIPD statement broadcasts.
> >
> > Read more here - http://wiki.ampr.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_gateway_on_Linux
> >
> > On 1/30/2017 2:11 AM, Joe Cupano wrote:
> >> This network is currently not reachable via the Internet.
> >>
> >> If needed to what GW should I tunnel to ?
> >>
> >> - Joe, NE2Z
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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From joe at cupano.com  Mon Jan 30 10:37:31 2017
From: joe at cupano.com (Joe Cupano)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:37:31 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
	<CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>

I agree on all points but also respect when it comes to Ham Radio how
long change can take : )


On 01/30/2017 10:34 AM, Corey Reichle wrote:
> That is my question as well.  Even if it is a matter of history, we do
> not have to do that "just because".  We can, advance the state of the
> radio art, and employ cross-platform, standardized routing protocols
> which are much better than anything possible with RIP protocol (ie,
> OLSR, for example).
>
> While I might be able to "make it work" on my OpenWRT devices, it
> would be a kludge I'd have to rebuild with every new router OS release.
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Joe Cupano <joe at cupano.com
> <mailto:joe at cupano.com>> wrote:
>
>     Thank you.
>
>     Is there a reason Open VPN is not used since it is cross platform ?
>
>     Fully understand if it is just a matter of history
>
>     73,
>
>     - Joe, NE2Z
>
>
>     On 01/30/2017 08:16 AM, Charles J. Hargrove wrote:
>     > If you eventually determine that you are going to connect to a
>     gateway
>     > with
>     > a public facing IP address, you need to make sure that it can
>     handle IPIP
>     > encapped routes (Protocol 4).  Many sysops use a Linux machine with
>     > tunneling
>     > set up and deal with the AMPR-RIPD statement broadcasts.
>     >
>     > Read more here -
>     http://wiki.ampr.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_gateway_on_Linux
>     <http://wiki.ampr.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_gateway_on_Linux>
>     >
>     > On 1/30/2017 2:11 AM, Joe Cupano wrote:
>     >> This network is currently not reachable via the Internet.
>     >>
>     >> If needed to what GW should I tunnel to ?
>     >>
>     >> - Joe, NE2Z
>     >
>     >
>
>
>
>
>
>

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From n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org  Mon Jan 30 13:12:13 2017
From: n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org (Brian)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:12:13 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
Message-ID: <1485799933.24697.4.camel@n1uro>

Gang;

On Mon, 2017-01-30 at 08:16 -0500, Charles J. Hargrove wrote:

> Read more here - http://wiki.ampr.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_gateway_on_Linux

Easier reading may be:
https://n1uro.ampr.org/linuxconf/dotun.html
which includes a simple script to get your ipencap going
for you.

-- 
I don't have to worry about body fitness in 2017. All I do is 
show my body to itself in the mirror and it throws plenty of
fits.
--------
73 de Brian - N1URO
email: (see above)
Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
Linux Amateur Radio Services
axMail-Fax & URONode
http://uronode.sourceforge.net
http://axmail.sourceforge.net
AmprNet coordinator for:
Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
Maryland, Massachusetts, 
New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, 
Rhode Island, and Vermont.
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From n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org  Mon Jan 30 13:21:07 2017
From: n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org (Brian)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 13:21:07 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
	<CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>
Message-ID: <1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>

On Mon, 2017-01-30 at 10:37 -0500, Joe Cupano wrote:
> I agree on all points but also respect when it comes to Ham Radio how
> long change can take : )
> 
One way to look at it is, why are wired technologies used for RADIO?
OpenVPN is like putting a bandaid on a wound that requires stitches. 
It will work temporarily but it's not a permanent fix. IPEncap is the 
method provided by ARDC (who owns 44/8) and it's somewhat dynamic in
nature as to how it provides routing especially to those dynamic
clients. If you wish to use OpenVPN, it can be done, but you won't have
any routing except to your OpenVPN server host and hope that host can
provide the IPEncap you need for the rest of 44/8.

If you're routing via RF, OpenVPN will cause you to violate Part97 in
regards to encryption on the air.

-- 
I don't have to worry about body fitness in 2017. All I do is 
show my body to itself in the mirror and it throws plenty of
fits.
--------
73 de Brian - N1URO
email: (see above)
Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
Linux Amateur Radio Services
axMail-Fax & URONode
http://uronode.sourceforge.net
http://axmail.sourceforge.net
AmprNet coordinator for:
Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
Maryland, Massachusetts, 
New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, 
Rhode Island, and Vermont.
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From joe at cupano.com  Mon Jan 30 14:12:50 2017
From: joe at cupano.com (Joe Cupano)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 14:12:50 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
	<CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>
	<1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>
Message-ID: <1df88208-19a1-a25f-0344-017a98fb15f4@cupano.com>


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

You could configure OpenVPN with weak or no encryption.

In fact I was on the ARRL TTF for HSMM ten years ago when the concern
about using encryption came up given the. We raised it with the FCC and
there was no issue until somsone wanted it codified in the regs,.

On 01/30/2017 01:21 PM, Brian wrote:
> On Mon, 2017-01-30 at 10:37 -0500, Joe Cupano wrote:
>> I agree on all points but also respect when it comes to Ham Radio how
>> long change can take : )
>>
> One way to look at it is, why are wired technologies used for RADIO?
> OpenVPN is like putting a bandaid on a wound that requires stitches.
> It will work temporarily but it's not a permanent fix. IPEncap is the
> method provided by ARDC (who owns 44/8) and it's somewhat dynamic in
> nature as to how it provides routing especially to those dynamic
> clients. If you wish to use OpenVPN, it can be done, but you won't have
> any routing except to your OpenVPN server host and hope that host can
> provide the IPEncap you need for the rest of 44/8.
>
> If you're routing via RF, OpenVPN will cause you to violate Part97 in
> regards to encryption on the air.
>
>
>
>

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From n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org  Mon Jan 30 14:32:11 2017
From: n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org (Brian)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 14:32:11 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <1df88208-19a1-a25f-0344-017a98fb15f4@cupano.com>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
	<CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>
	<1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>
	<1df88208-19a1-a25f-0344-017a98fb15f4@cupano.com>
Message-ID: <1485804731.16551.18.camel@n1uro>

Joe;

On Mon, 2017-01-30 at 14:12 -0500, Joe Cupano wrote:

> You could configure OpenVPN with weak or no encryption.
> 
Which would be ipip/ipencap.


> In fact I was on the ARRL TTF for HSMM ten years ago when the concern
> about using encryption came up given the. We raised it with the FCC
> and
> there was no issue until somsone wanted it codified in the regs,.

There's a lot to be desired when it comes to the league especially when
you talk packet. I've called them several times asking for packet
info/aid just to see what their response would be and the best I've
received was "you may want to look up TAPR". Little did they know I've
been developing the only native linux node in the states for the past 2
decades and TAPR is very supportive in the project. 
-- 
I don't have to worry about body fitness in 2017. All I do is 
show my body to itself in the mirror and it throws plenty of
fits.
--------
73 de Brian - N1URO
email: (see above)
Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
Linux Amateur Radio Services
axMail-Fax & URONode
http://uronode.sourceforge.net
http://axmail.sourceforge.net
AmprNet coordinator for:
Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
Maryland, Massachusetts, 
New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, 
Rhode Island, and Vermont.
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From joe at cupano.com  Mon Jan 30 14:34:57 2017
From: joe at cupano.com (Joe Cupano)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 14:34:57 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <1485804731.16551.18.camel@n1uro>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
	<CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>
	<1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>
	<1df88208-19a1-a25f-0344-017a98fb15f4@cupano.com>
	<1485804731.16551.18.camel@n1uro>
Message-ID: <729ef070-aaca-c09e-fd34-990126d37b21@cupano.com>


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

All good, Brian : )

Thanks,

- - Joe

On 01/30/2017 02:32 PM, Brian wrote:
> Joe;
>
> On Mon, 2017-01-30 at 14:12 -0500, Joe Cupano wrote:
>
>> You could configure OpenVPN with weak or no encryption.
>>
> Which would be ipip/ipencap.
>
>
>> In fact I was on the ARRL TTF for HSMM ten years ago when the concern
>> about using encryption came up given the. We raised it with the FCC
>> and
>> there was no issue until somsone wanted it codified in the regs,.
>
> There's a lot to be desired when it comes to the league especially when
> you talk packet. I've called them several times asking for packet
> info/aid just to see what their response would be and the best I've
> received was "you may want to look up TAPR". Little did they know I've
> been developing the only native linux node in the states for the past 2
> decades and TAPR is very supportive in the project.
>
>
>

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From coreyreichle at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 14:53:38 2017
From: coreyreichle at gmail.com (Corey Reichle)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 14:53:38 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
	<CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>
	<1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>
Message-ID: <CALvFBuzHDJtqwLVR0mFQXYYLZPdjKK4ESrOgAeNk=ZYW_VxOTQ@mail.gmail.com>

Why would you use OpenVPN (Or, any other tunneling) over RF links?  That
would be silly.  Routing of IP packets is handled by the AX25 stack (Or
other link layer protocol in use, which could be 802.11).  No IPEncap
required for that.  Just routes.

We're discussing tunneling of IP traffic over an IP network that is wired,
that's all.

OLSR is also a dynamic, self-healing routing protocol, that is heads and
shoulders above RIP protocols, as it is also a self-discovering of
neighbors and routes.  See Broadband Hamnet's work with that.  It is also
usable over wired networks.

OpenVPN tunnels are used to bridge two networks together.  Hardware behind
that provides the routing to other networks, and with OSLR, having mutliple
possible routes is possible, with routing loops prevented due to it's
design.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian <n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 2017-01-30 at 10:37 -0500, Joe Cupano wrote:
> > I agree on all points but also respect when it comes to Ham Radio how
> > long change can take : )
> >
> One way to look at it is, why are wired technologies used for RADIO?
> OpenVPN is like putting a bandaid on a wound that requires stitches.
> It will work temporarily but it's not a permanent fix. IPEncap is the
> method provided by ARDC (who owns 44/8) and it's somewhat dynamic in
> nature as to how it provides routing especially to those dynamic
> clients. If you wish to use OpenVPN, it can be done, but you won't have
> any routing except to your OpenVPN server host and hope that host can
> provide the IPEncap you need for the rest of 44/8.
>
> If you're routing via RF, OpenVPN will cause you to violate Part97 in
> regards to encryption on the air.
>
> --
> I don't have to worry about body fitness in 2017. All I do is
> show my body to itself in the mirror and it throws plenty of
> fits.
> --------
> 73 de Brian - N1URO
> email: (see above)
> Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
> Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
> Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
> Linux Amateur Radio Services
> axMail-Fax & URONode
> http://uronode.sourceforge.net
> http://axmail.sourceforge.net
> AmprNet coordinator for:
> Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
> Maryland, Massachusetts,
> New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania,
> Rhode Island, and Vermont.
>
>
>
>
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From joe at cupano.com  Mon Jan 30 15:01:51 2017
From: joe at cupano.com (Joe Cupano)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:01:51 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <CALvFBuzHDJtqwLVR0mFQXYYLZPdjKK4ESrOgAeNk=ZYW_VxOTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
	<CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>
	<1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuzHDJtqwLVR0mFQXYYLZPdjKK4ESrOgAeNk=ZYW_VxOTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cb36aaf-3936-b5b0-d1d2-1128afbeaba6@cupano.com>

The Use case I was thinking is if my 44.68.86.X/29 is total RF with one
device as a gateway that tunnels across wired internet back to the UCSD
gateway to the rest off 44 that have a GW there


On 01/30/2017 02:53 PM, Corey Reichle wrote:
> Why would you use OpenVPN (Or, any other tunneling) over RF links? 
> That would be silly.  Routing of IP packets is handled by the AX25
> stack (Or other link layer protocol in use, which could be 802.11). 
> No IPEncap required for that.  Just routes.
>
> We're discussing tunneling of IP traffic over an IP network that is
> wired, that's all.
>
> OLSR is also a dynamic, self-healing routing protocol, that is heads
> and shoulders above RIP protocols, as it is also a self-discovering of
> neighbors and routes.  See Broadband Hamnet's work with that.  It is
> also usable over wired networks.
>
> OpenVPN tunnels are used to bridge two networks together.  Hardware
> behind that provides the routing to other networks, and with OSLR,
> having mutliple possible routes is possible, with routing loops
> prevented due to it's design.
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian <n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org
> <mailto:n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org>> wrote:
>
>     On Mon, 2017-01-30 at 10:37 -0500, Joe Cupano wrote:
>     > I agree on all points but also respect when it comes to Ham
>     Radio how
>     > long change can take : )
>     >
>     One way to look at it is, why are wired technologies used for RADIO?
>     OpenVPN is like putting a bandaid on a wound that requires stitches.
>     It will work temporarily but it's not a permanent fix. IPEncap is the
>     method provided by ARDC (who owns 44/8) and it's somewhat dynamic in
>     nature as to how it provides routing especially to those dynamic
>     clients. If you wish to use OpenVPN, it can be done, but you won't
>     have
>     any routing except to your OpenVPN server host and hope that host can
>     provide the IPEncap you need for the rest of 44/8.
>
>     If you're routing via RF, OpenVPN will cause you to violate Part97 in
>     regards to encryption on the air.
>
>     --
>     I don't have to worry about body fitness in 2017. All I do is
>     show my body to itself in the mirror and it throws plenty of
>     fits.
>     --------
>     73 de Brian - N1URO
>     email: (see above)
>     Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
>     Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
>     Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
>     Linux Amateur Radio Services
>     axMail-Fax & URONode
>     http://uronode.sourceforge.net
>     http://axmail.sourceforge.net
>     AmprNet coordinator for:
>     Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
>     Maryland, Massachusetts,
>     New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania,
>     Rhode Island, and Vermont.
>
>
>
>
>
>

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From n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org  Mon Jan 30 15:14:07 2017
From: n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org (Brian)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:14:07 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <CALvFBuzHDJtqwLVR0mFQXYYLZPdjKK4ESrOgAeNk=ZYW_VxOTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
	<CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>
	<1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuzHDJtqwLVR0mFQXYYLZPdjKK4ESrOgAeNk=ZYW_VxOTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1485807247.16551.27.camel@n1uro>

Hello Corey;

On Mon, 2017-01-30 at 14:53 -0500, Corey Reichle wrote:
> Why would you use OpenVPN (Or, any other tunneling) over RF links?
> That would be silly.  Routing of IP packets is handled by the AX25
> stack (Or other link layer protocol in use, which could be 802.11).
> No IPEncap required for that.  Just routes.
> 
You're absolutely correct but there are guys using OpenVPN servers who
are using push to force that issue. Not good.

> We're discussing tunneling of IP traffic over an IP network that is
> wired, that's all.

One needs not to be licensed to be a glorified ISP.

> 
> OLSR is also a dynamic, self-healing routing protocol, that is heads
> and shoulders above RIP protocols, as it is also a self-discovering of
> neighbors and routes.  See Broadband Hamnet's work with that.  It is
> also usable over wired networks.
> 
> OpenVPN tunnels are used to bridge two networks together.  Hardware
> behind that provides the routing to other networks, and with OSLR,
> having mutliple possible routes is possible, with routing loops
> prevented due to it's design.

So since the hardware device would *still* require ipencap to speak to
the rest of 44/8 and the global internet, why would you wish to
introduce not one but 2 potential points of failure?

Case in point, ALL if Ireland now is forced to use an OpenVPN system.
It is now quite isolated and unreachable. There was a perfectly working
system with an HF gateway using ipencap to ARDC which is now DOA. Once
that additional point of failure was brought in, the "wire" failed just
as it would in an emergency.

Also when you think about it, since vpns use a form of ipencap, and the
method used by ARDC is designed **specifically for amateur usage** and
it does indeed work, why reinvent the wheel? 


-- 
I don't have to worry about body fitness in 2017. All I do is 
show my body to itself in the mirror and it throws plenty of
fits.
--------
73 de Brian - N1URO
email: (see above)
Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
Linux Amateur Radio Services
axMail-Fax & URONode
http://uronode.sourceforge.net
http://axmail.sourceforge.net
AmprNet coordinator for:
Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
Maryland, Massachusetts, 
New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, 
Rhode Island, and Vermont.
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From coreyreichle at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 15:45:58 2017
From: coreyreichle at gmail.com (Corey Reichle)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:45:58 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <1485807247.16551.27.camel@n1uro>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
	<CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>
	<1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuzHDJtqwLVR0mFQXYYLZPdjKK4ESrOgAeNk=ZYW_VxOTQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1485807247.16551.27.camel@n1uro>
Message-ID: <CALvFBuwdw8ES+Swh1iwHKFpwX6Z6DBDVSZ-fVVm1HTupTEFSaA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Brian <n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org> wrote:

> Hello Corey;
>
> On Mon, 2017-01-30 at 14:53 -0500, Corey Reichle wrote:
> > Why would you use OpenVPN (Or, any other tunneling) over RF links?
> > That would be silly.  Routing of IP packets is handled by the AX25
> > stack (Or other link layer protocol in use, which could be 802.11).
> > No IPEncap required for that.  Just routes.
> >
> You're absolutely correct but there are guys using OpenVPN servers who
> are using push to force that issue. Not good.
>
>
While that may be true, that is neither hither, nor thither regarding the
NYS network.


> > We're discussing tunneling of IP traffic over an IP network that is
> > wired, that's all.
>
> One needs not to be licensed to be a glorified ISP.
>
>
I fail to see what that has to do with the price of tea in China.


> >
> > OLSR is also a dynamic, self-healing routing protocol, that is heads
> > and shoulders above RIP protocols, as it is also a self-discovering of
> > neighbors and routes.  See Broadband Hamnet's work with that.  It is
> > also usable over wired networks.
> >
> > OpenVPN tunnels are used to bridge two networks together.  Hardware
> > behind that provides the routing to other networks, and with OSLR,
> > having mutliple possible routes is possible, with routing loops
> > prevented due to it's design.
>
> So since the hardware device would *still* require ipencap to speak to
> the rest of 44/8 and the global internet, why would you wish to
> introduce not one but 2 potential points of failure?
>
>
It doesn't need that.  It's desired, due to the "not invented here"
syndrome that plagues many ham activities.  If the manager of the 44/8
network is willing to do so, any number of points in the NYS network could
be bridged over a VPN tunnel into there, and appropriate routing decisions
made at that point (ie, based on link costing).  Or, two designated points
in NYS could be the uplink.  Or, none, and for example, myself, being close
to PA might have a route to the PA network via RF, which might have a route
to the wider network.

Of course, this is presuming a modern, link-state routing protocol is used,
such as OLSR, or OSPF.  Or, even doable with static routing.  All negating
the need for any of this.

So, it's not introducing 2 points of failure, it's a manner of providing
multiple, redundant paths.


> Case in point, ALL if Ireland now is forced to use an OpenVPN system.
> It is now quite isolated and unreachable. There was a perfectly working
> system with an HF gateway using ipencap to ARDC which is now DOA. Once
> that additional point of failure was brought in, the "wire" failed just
> as it would in an emergency.
>
>
Again, not pertinent to the discussion here, really.


> Also when you think about it, since vpns use a form of ipencap, and the
> method used by ARDC is designed **specifically for amateur usage** and
> it does indeed work, why reinvent the wheel?
>
>
>
They use a form of it, yet.  However, the method used by ARDC isn't
available in COTS hardware, therefore, makes the network more difficult to
deploy, and scale.  I fail to see how a custom RIP daemon and a niche
clear-channel tunneling protocol is specifically crafted for amateur
usage.  The AX25 stack, yes, but that's not what we're discussing here.
We're discussing IPv4 routing over RF links.  There is no "reinventing the
wheel" here:  What I'm suggesting is the exact opposite:  Stop reinventing
the wheel, and use the systems in place in the wider IPv4 networking world.

We could, and should, learn some lessons from the wider schools here.  What
we're discussing is a mesh network, on a wide scale.  Much like Freifunk
network (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freifunk).  They did not write their
own custom routing protocol.  They used an off-the-shelf, modern link state
routing protocol.  Nodes come and go at will, and the network autodiscovers
new routes.


> --
> I don't have to worry about body fitness in 2017. All I do is
> show my body to itself in the mirror and it throws plenty of
> fits.
> --------
> 73 de Brian - N1URO
> email: (see above)
> Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
> Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
> Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
> Linux Amateur Radio Services
> axMail-Fax & URONode
> http://uronode.sourceforge.net
> http://axmail.sourceforge.net
> AmprNet coordinator for:
> Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
> Maryland, Massachusetts,
> New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania,
> Rhode Island, and Vermont.
>
>
>
>
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From n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org  Mon Jan 30 16:44:00 2017
From: n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org (Brian)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 16:44:00 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <CALvFBuwdw8ES+Swh1iwHKFpwX6Z6DBDVSZ-fVVm1HTupTEFSaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
	<CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>
	<1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuzHDJtqwLVR0mFQXYYLZPdjKK4ESrOgAeNk=ZYW_VxOTQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1485807247.16551.27.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuwdw8ES+Swh1iwHKFpwX6Z6DBDVSZ-fVVm1HTupTEFSaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1485812640.16551.74.camel@n1uro>

On Mon, 2017-01-30 at 15:45 -0500, Corey Reichle wrote:

> While that may be true, that is neither hither, nor thither regarding
> the NYS network.

NYS in regards to RF falls under the scope of EastNet. It has since the
80's. It is "hither and thither".


> I fail to see what that has to do with the price of tea in China.

I expected such an answer.


> It doesn't need that.  It's desired, due to the "not invented here"
> syndrome that plagues many ham activities.  If the manager of the 44/8
> network is willing to do so, any number of points in the NYS network
> could be bridged over a VPN tunnel into there, and appropriate routing
> decisions made at that point (ie, based on link costing).  Or, two
> designated points in NYS could be the uplink.  Or, none, and for
> example, myself, being close to PA might have a route to the PA
> network via RF, which might have a route to the wider network.
> 
> 
"not invented here"? Who on earth said that? With that said, we're
talking about wire here no? Keep this in mind for future reference.
I *really* don't think you fully understand the ARDC, 44-net, or even
amprgate and it's function. If you want 44/8 to do what YOU wish it to
do, purchase the block! NO IP on 44/8 is OWNED by any single ham! If you
don't like it, buy your own block. In that regard it's very simple.

I also never stated the *only* method of connectivity is ipip, I said
it's the ONLY one that ARCD provides. There's a HUGE difference that
only that of a closed mind would fail to have recognized.

> Of course, this is presuming a modern, link-state routing protocol is
> used, such as OLSR, or OSPF.  Or, even doable with static routing.
> All negating the need for any of this.
> 
Since 99.9% if ISPs filter this, along with IS-IS, how do you propose to
pass this? At this point are you talking wire or RF? Since wire only at
this point was mentioned, I can only assume that... and I wish not to
assume.

> So, it's not introducing 2 points of failure, it's a manner of
> providing multiple, redundant paths.

On EastNet, we use Flex and when applicable prefer 3-way, no hts (hidden
transmitter syndrome) RF links which with Flex, no OSPF etc. is needed.
Flex handles it all on the RF side. I've witnessed IP sockets on path A
fail and re-establish on path B over flex without interruption of the
Layer 7 app in use.

> Again, not pertinent to the discussion here, really.

Absolutely it is. The OpenVPN system directly interfacing amprgate then
becomes the single point of failure for anything behind it. Again, I
expected such a response.

> They use a form of it, yet.  However, the method used by ARDC isn't
> available in COTS hardware, therefore, makes the network more
> difficult to deploy, and scale.

I see "not invented here" to equal "isn't available in COTS hardware" in
principle... and you're also quite incorrect in your above statement.
Features simply may be hidden in the eye-candy GUIs provided such as
ipencap which is in more COTS devices than you may realize.

>   I fail to see how a custom RIP daemon and a niche clear-channel
> tunneling protocol is specifically crafted for amateur usage.  The
> AX25 stack, yes, but that's not what we're discussing here.  We're
> discussing IPv4 routing over RF links.  

Now we're talking RF. Which are we discussing? If we're discussing IPv4
under ax.25 for the purposes of RF, there's other methods available
specific for RF usage... FlexNet being one of them. After all what's key
on RF is the ax.25 layer not the IP header which is under the ax.25
layer. Ripv2 is as useless on RF as would be to send AT&T's OSPF table
via RF.

> There is no "reinventing the wheel" here:  What I'm suggesting is the
> exact opposite:  Stop reinventing the wheel, and use the systems in
> place in the wider IPv4 networking world.
> 
For which medium? amprgate hasn't done a thing in 40 years of it's
existence except upgrade hardware and send more botnet data to UCSD for
examination than it did before (yes amprgate traps botnet and viri data
for examination which it sends to antiviri companies so ipencap helps in
this regard).. so there has NOT been any reinventing the wheel. If you
wish to link to amprgate and the rest of the global internet they
provide a mesh ipencap system. You do not have to talk directly to
amprgate if you wish not to, that's the end user's option.

> We could, and should, learn some lessons from the wider schools here.
> What we're discussing is a mesh network, on a wide scale.  Much like
> Freifunk network (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freifunk).  They did
> not write their own custom routing protocol.  They used an
> off-the-shelf, modern link state routing protocol.  Nodes come and go
> at will, and the network autodiscovers new routes.

This mesh network is 802.11 in nature. You can also look at what's going
on in Florida. There's HamWan and HamLan as well. Nothing new, higher
speeds and ax.25 is NOT even required, however, there are devices which
can handle ipencap on these sort of ham networks quite easily. YO2LOJ
who makes one of the ripv2 daemons also writes a tool for making and
maintaining ipencap within ubiquity gear.

So... which are we discussing now?
wire?
ax.25 RF?
802.11ham RF?

-- 
I find it funny routing engineers are how they are. If part of what they 
do wasn't for my work, they wouldn't have work.

73 de Brian - N1URO
email: (see above)
Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
Linux Amateur Radio Services
axMail-Fax & URONode
http://uronode.sourceforge.net
http://axmail.sourceforge.net
AmprNet coordinator for:
Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
Maryland, Massachusetts, 
New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, 
Rhode Island, and Vermont.
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From coreyreichle at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 17:09:00 2017
From: coreyreichle at gmail.com (Corey Reichle)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 17:09:00 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <1485812640.16551.74.camel@n1uro>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
	<CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>
	<1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuzHDJtqwLVR0mFQXYYLZPdjKK4ESrOgAeNk=ZYW_VxOTQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1485807247.16551.27.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuwdw8ES+Swh1iwHKFpwX6Z6DBDVSZ-fVVm1HTupTEFSaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1485812640.16551.74.camel@n1uro>
Message-ID: <CALvFBuxxorT2Q1H-gitidwyCnnfub1i8fykzf0J6d23adziOaw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 4:44 PM, Brian <n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 2017-01-30 at 15:45 -0500, Corey Reichle wrote:
>
> > While that may be true, that is neither hither, nor thither regarding
> > the NYS network.
>
> NYS in regards to RF falls under the scope of EastNet. It has since the
> 80's. It is "hither and thither".
>
>
>
My subnet has no relationship to EastNet, and until recently, I had only an
inkling it existed.


> > I fail to see what that has to do with the price of tea in China.
>
> I expected such an answer.
>
>
Of course.  Because nobody here is talking about being an ISP.


>
> > It doesn't need that.  It's desired, due to the "not invented here"
> > syndrome that plagues many ham activities.  If the manager of the 44/8
> > network is willing to do so, any number of points in the NYS network
> > could be bridged over a VPN tunnel into there, and appropriate routing
> > decisions made at that point (ie, based on link costing).  Or, two
> > designated points in NYS could be the uplink.  Or, none, and for
> > example, myself, being close to PA might have a route to the PA
> > network via RF, which might have a route to the wider network.
> >
> >
> "not invented here"? Who on earth said that? With that said, we're
> talking about wire here no? Keep this in mind for future reference.
> I *really* don't think you fully understand the ARDC, 44-net, or even
> amprgate and it's function. If you want 44/8 to do what YOU wish it to
> do, purchase the block! NO IP on 44/8 is OWNED by any single ham! If you
> don't like it, buy your own block. In that regard it's very simple.
>
>
Yes, NIH.  As far as the 44/8 net is concerned, IMO, it's an IP space
reserved for amateur usage, and Brian Kantor is the manager of the block.
AMPRGATE is there to be able to act as the AS for the address block.

You are correct.  No single ham owns any of the addresses, they are
allocated much like many DCs I operate are allocated blocks of address
space.

Personally, I would like to see the 44/8 net space, as a whole, operate as
a modern network functions.  If not that level, I would like to see the NYS
AMPR network do so.  In any case, I will not be employing any kludges just
to get my network routed somewhere, as I am more than happy to coordinate
with individual network operators, and set up peering arrangements with
them.  Using industry standard routing and bridging protocols.

So, if I don't like it, I can just continue to do what I'm doing:  Using
the block I was allocated for my own experimental needs.



> I also never stated the *only* method of connectivity is ipip, I said
> it's the ONLY one that ARCD provides. There's a HUGE difference that
> only that of a closed mind would fail to have recognized.
>
>
And that's fine.  At this time, it's the only manner ARCD provides.  That
doesn't mean it's set into stone, and unchanging.  The best way to convince
ARCD to employ another method is to show (By use) it's better.


> > Of course, this is presuming a modern, link-state routing protocol is
> > used, such as OLSR, or OSPF.  Or, even doable with static routing.
> > All negating the need for any of this.
> >
> Since 99.9% if ISPs filter this, along with IS-IS, how do you propose to
> pass this? At this point are you talking wire or RF? Since wire only at
> this point was mentioned, I can only assume that... and I wish not to
> assume.
>
>
Well, seeing as anything going over the public internet would be tunneled
in the IPSec tunnel, they wouldn't be able to stop any of it, as route
adverts would be sent to neighboring peers, via their links.  Just like it
works in every large-scale network on the planet.


> > So, it's not introducing 2 points of failure, it's a manner of
> > providing multiple, redundant paths.
>
> On EastNet, we use Flex and when applicable prefer 3-way, no hts (hidden
> transmitter syndrome) RF links which with Flex, no OSPF etc. is needed.
> Flex handles it all on the RF side. I've witnessed IP sockets on path A
> fail and re-establish on path B over flex without interruption of the
> Layer 7 app in use.
>
>
Some sort of routing is required to determine where to route IP packets.
It's not magic that happens.  And, Flex32, last I checked, has no package
available for OpenWRT or Cisco routers.


> > Again, not pertinent to the discussion here, really.
>
> Absolutely it is. The OpenVPN system directly interfacing amprgate then
> becomes the single point of failure for anything behind it. Again, I
> expected such a response.
>
>
Sure.  OpenVPN is the single point of failure then, just like ipip encaps
are the single point of failure today.  Not seeing what the difference is?


> > They use a form of it, yet.  However, the method used by ARDC isn't
> > available in COTS hardware, therefore, makes the network more
> > difficult to deploy, and scale.
>
> I see "not invented here" to equal "isn't available in COTS hardware" in
> principle... and you're also quite incorrect in your above statement.
> Features simply may be hidden in the eye-candy GUIs provided such as
> ipencap which is in more COTS devices than you may realize.
>

I'm not talking about ipencap.  I'm referring more to the routing protocol:
 ampr-ripd.


>
> >   I fail to see how a custom RIP daemon and a niche clear-channel
> > tunneling protocol is specifically crafted for amateur usage.  The
> > AX25 stack, yes, but that's not what we're discussing here.  We're
> > discussing IPv4 routing over RF links.
>
> Now we're talking RF. Which are we discussing? If we're discussing IPv4
> under ax.25 for the purposes of RF, there's other methods available
> specific for RF usage... FlexNet being one of them. After all what's key
> on RF is the ax.25 layer not the IP header which is under the ax.25
> layer. Ripv2 is as useless on RF as would be to send AT&T's OSPF table
> via RF.
>
>
Well, for this discussion, we're talking about the wire-line links needed
to bridge island networks, not available via RF.  Regardless, many routing
protocols work just fine for wire-line or wireless, such as OSLR.

Praytell:  How does one access an IPv4 address, via RF, without a routing
table entry for it?  Sure, I can call KC2UGV-8 via KTOWN, and NetROM will
make it happen.  But, without a routing table and route, I cannot ping
44.x.x.x.

So, routing protocols ARE required for IPv4 routing.  RF or wireline.


> > There is no "reinventing the wheel" here:  What I'm suggesting is the
> > exact opposite:  Stop reinventing the wheel, and use the systems in
> > place in the wider IPv4 networking world.
> >
> For which medium? amprgate hasn't done a thing in 40 years of it's
> existence except upgrade hardware and send more botnet data to UCSD for
> examination than it did before (yes amprgate traps botnet and viri data
> for examination which it sends to antiviri companies so ipencap helps in
> this regard).. so there has NOT been any reinventing the wheel. If you
> wish to link to amprgate and the rest of the global internet they
> provide a mesh ipencap system. You do not have to talk directly to
> amprgate if you wish not to, that's the end user's option.
>
> > We could, and should, learn some lessons from the wider schools here.
> > What we're discussing is a mesh network, on a wide scale.  Much like
> > Freifunk network (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freifunk).  They did
> > not write their own custom routing protocol.  They used an
> > off-the-shelf, modern link state routing protocol.  Nodes come and go
> > at will, and the network autodiscovers new routes.
>
> This mesh network is 802.11 in nature. You can also look at what's going
> on in Florida. There's HamWan and HamLan as well. Nothing new, higher
> speeds and ax.25 is NOT even required, however, there are devices which
> can handle ipencap on these sort of ham networks quite easily. YO2LOJ
> who makes one of the ripv2 daemons also writes a tool for making and
> maintaining ipencap within ubiquity gear.
>
> So... which are we discussing now?
> wire?
> ax.25 RF?
> 802.11ham RF?
>
>
We are talking about a unified IPv4 network, which is what this mailing
list is for:  The NYS operators of an IPv4 address space.  The physical
layer isn't really at issue here, aside from how we link island together
until we have RF links.


> --
> I find it funny routing engineers are how they are. If part of what they
> do wasn't for my work, they wouldn't have work.
>
> 73 de Brian - N1URO
> email: (see above)
> Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
> Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
> Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
> Linux Amateur Radio Services
> axMail-Fax & URONode
> http://uronode.sourceforge.net
> http://axmail.sourceforge.net
> AmprNet coordinator for:
> Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
> Maryland, Massachusetts,
> New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania,
> Rhode Island, and Vermont.
>
>
>
>
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From n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org  Mon Jan 30 18:18:04 2017
From: n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org (Brian)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 18:18:04 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <CALvFBuxxorT2Q1H-gitidwyCnnfub1i8fykzf0J6d23adziOaw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
	<CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>
	<1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuzHDJtqwLVR0mFQXYYLZPdjKK4ESrOgAeNk=ZYW_VxOTQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1485807247.16551.27.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuwdw8ES+Swh1iwHKFpwX6Z6DBDVSZ-fVVm1HTupTEFSaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1485812640.16551.74.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuxxorT2Q1H-gitidwyCnnfub1i8fykzf0J6d23adziOaw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1485818284.16551.133.camel@n1uro>

Corey;

On Mon, 2017-01-30 at 17:09 -0500, Corey Reichle wrote:

> My subnet has no relationship to EastNet, and until recently, I had
> only an inkling it existed.

It's been around since the 80's... formed and maintained by K2BJG/SK
until he became SK. Now I'm the engineer, developer, and ip coordinator
for all of EastNet with the exception of 44.68/16 but I do maintain a
great relationship with Charles and helped him with his system recently.
I also contribute to the LinFBB project and JNOS projects.

> Yes, NIH.  As far as the 44/8 net is concerned, IMO, it's an IP space
> reserved for amateur usage, and Brian Kantor is the manager of the
> block.  AMPRGATE is there to be able to act as the AS for the address
> block.
> 
Actually, BK is the "owner" of 44/8. Amprgate is not the AS for 44/8 but
one of the Junipers within UCSD is. Amprgate is the ipencap system for
44/8 and also sends out the Ripv2 broadcasts. Years ago it was referred
to as mirrorshades (you may recall). It's OS is BSD.

> Personally, I would like to see the 44/8 net space, as a whole,
> operate as a modern network functions.  If not that level, I would
> like to see the NYS AMPR network do so.  In any case, I will not be
> employing any kludges just to get my network routed somewhere, as I am
> more than happy to coordinate with individual network operators, and
> set up peering arrangements with them.  Using industry standard
> routing and bridging protocols.
> 
An individual subnet may do what you wish (see my private mail) but the
mass percentage of users are using ipencap. Ipencap is not a kluge. The
true issue is with spoofing and route protocol hijacking which for their
own protection ISPs filter. While it prohibits experimentation there's
nothing you can't do on the other side of the link.

> 
> And that's fine.  At this time, it's the only manner ARCD provides.
> That doesn't mean it's set into stone, and unchanging.  The best way
> to convince ARCD to employ another method is to show (By use) it's
> better.

OpenVPN at amprgate wouldn't be feasible and it'd take up too much of
BK's time from his employment. There's also possible agreement issues
between UCSD and ARDC that may not permit such a thing. This I'm unsure
of. It may not have anything to do with ARDC. I can say, for the cost of
a 44-net block vs leasing one from an ISP is a hell of a deal and one
shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.

> Well, seeing as anything going over the public internet would be
> tunneled in the IPSec tunnel, they wouldn't be able to stop any of it,
> as route adverts would be sent to neighboring peers, via their links.
> Just like it works in every large-scale network on the planet.

That would be dependent on the upstream's NOC. Many now scan frames for
such traffic, others could care less.

> Some sort of routing is required to determine where to route IP
> packets.  It's not magic that happens.  And, Flex32, last I checked,
> has no package available for OpenWRT or Cisco routers.

Cisco's support ipencap very well! For years I was routing 44/8 on my
2600 without a glitch using ipip. Most people don't understand it.
Flex32? Would you like fries and a blue screen of death with the ecomm
message sir? :) Again, you need to define the type of RF here, standard
packet ax25 or 802.11ham? In standard packet, there's no IP route tables
within flex yet it routes the frames dynamically. Remember, you only
need to focus on the top layer which is ax25 NOT ip. Since Ip is
encapsulated under ax25, where ax25 goes, so will the IP. Let me present
a quick example of routing IP under flex... w1edh.ampr.org is 2 1200
baud hops from me... not the ideal for IP but there's no netrom
overhead. As you'll see, IP to w1edh (which has no IP at all except what
I built via VHF) does work:
n1uro-15 at n1uro.ampr.org:/uronode$ tra
Executing command...
what IP or HOSTName do you wish to trace? w1edh.ampr.org
Please wait while we trace to w1edh.ampr.org...
traceroute to w1edh.ampr.org (44.88.8.1), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  gw.ct.ampr.org (44.88.0.1)  6.328 ms  6.499 ms  6.880 ms
 2  k1yon.ampr.org (44.88.4.1)  56.844 ms  61.509 ms  65.469 ms
 3  w1edh.ampr.org (44.88.8.1)  5028.054 ms * *
Tracing complete.
URONode tracer v1.3 - TraceRoute utility by N1URO.
Goodbye.
n1uro-15 at n1uro.ampr.org:/uronode$ t w1edh.ampr.org node
Trying 44.88.8.1:node... <Enter> aborts.
Socket established to 44.88.8.1:node
(w1edh.ampr.org:uronode) login:

There's fbb mail forwarding over that link too so that explains the
temporary latency of 5s, however you don't see flexnet.k1yon or
flexnet.w1edh in the path. It's transparent but it is passing the ax25
frame (with IP under it) to it's destination. I thought the same as you
"you need an ip route table to route ip" however I found in this case it
isn't true at all. pc/FlexNet has no ip/rose/netrom route tables in
it... just ax25. We're actually using the IP feature to do axip within
the native netrom nodes for our NetRom gateways. This also helps gain
EastNet access into my SQL server.


We used to have a nice 9600 baud ax25/ip network from Central Mass
through CT and down the Hudson river however many stations went dark.
it'd be nice to see that rebuilt and act as a nice parallel to an
802.11ham network.

> Sure.  OpenVPN is the single point of failure then, just like ipip
> encaps are the single point of failure today.  Not seeing what the
> difference is?

The difference is, if amprgate went offline for whatever reasoning, I'd
still have 44/8 access to the globe as it's point to point. In the case
of Ireland, the entire country is cut off from the globe. An OpenVPN
server for NYS that's failed for whatever reason could cut NYS off from
the rest of the country, if not itself as well.

> I'm not talking about ipencap.  I'm referring more to the routing
> protocol:  ampr-ripd.

One doesn't have to use that. There's the munge system and loader files
as well. Of course as public IPs change such a system would be out of
date.

> Well, for this discussion, we're talking about the wire-line links
> needed to bridge island networks, not available via RF.  Regardless,
> many routing protocols work just fine for wire-line or wireless, such
> as OSLR.

Why not build the RF? Maybe find some RF sites to act as a bridge
instead? If you can place a wire, you can build RF.
> 
> 
> Praytell:  How does one access an IPv4 address, via RF, without a
> routing table entry for it?  Sure, I can call KC2UGV-8 via KTOWN, and
> NetROM will make it happen.  But, without a routing table and route, I
> cannot ping 44.x.x.x.
> 
Within a Flex based ax25 wan, the route tables are at each end point.
The rest is handled via ax25. Simple. Perhaps you might want to attend
the next EastNet meeting which will be late springtime.
> 
> So, routing protocols ARE required for IPv4 routing.  RF or wireline.

Not in the case of a Flex based system, and it's quite dynamic in
nature. I know for your position this sounds like the impossible, which
was EastNet's stumbling block for about 5 years until I figure out just
how to do this. In the interim, we were fed a lot of misinformation on
getting xNOS to do IP on EastNet by the Gunter Jost himself.
> 
> We are talking about a unified IPv4 network, which is what this
> mailing list is for:  The NYS operators of an IPv4 address space.  The
> physical layer isn't really at issue here, aside from how we link
> island together until we have RF links.

The physical layer is the starting point in reality when you study your
OSI layers, so it does matter. The physical layer of an 802.11ham point
and that of an ax25 point are two totally different beasts as to what
they can and/or can not do especially if you're comparing a PacComm Tiny
2 Mk II with an X1J-4 eprom to a Microtik. You wouldn't use OSPF on
X1J-4, and I don't believe Microtik does NetRom.


-- 
I don't have to worry about body fitness in 2017. All I do is 
show my body to itself in the mirror and it throws plenty of
fits.
--------
73 de Brian - N1URO
email: (see above)
Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
Linux Amateur Radio Services
axMail-Fax & URONode
http://uronode.sourceforge.net
http://axmail.sourceforge.net
AmprNet coordinator for:
Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
Maryland, Massachusetts, 
New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, 
Rhode Island, and Vermont.
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From coreyreichle at gmail.com  Tue Jan 31 10:04:12 2017
From: coreyreichle at gmail.com (Corey Reichle)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:04:12 -0500
Subject: [HamGateNY] Current NY State DNS Entries
In-Reply-To: <1485818284.16551.133.camel@n1uro>
References: <875bed25-316d-be50-87f9-ea5382553eec@n2nov.net>
	<41a8f791-1748-e97d-ad2e-042542ee0e30@cupano.com>
	<f08e9dc4-8cc8-ab9d-668d-75800f2e6357@n2nov.net>
	<c202390b-da70-30b2-d061-e3f8e76b4448@cupano.com>
	<b6a85993-2eb1-9b11-3f1d-35cac65d991e@n2nov.net>
	<e08e9e32-3c7f-ed93-6703-ebc03c101d65@cupano.com>
	<CALvFBuz5Qk4fNpom=HMHV4gFa_tg2dnjPa9VifibQ-u79AZwAg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a96a131c-6b1a-5bb2-9e31-62737ad71bc4@cupano.com>
	<1485800467.24697.10.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuzHDJtqwLVR0mFQXYYLZPdjKK4ESrOgAeNk=ZYW_VxOTQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1485807247.16551.27.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuwdw8ES+Swh1iwHKFpwX6Z6DBDVSZ-fVVm1HTupTEFSaA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1485812640.16551.74.camel@n1uro>
	<CALvFBuxxorT2Q1H-gitidwyCnnfub1i8fykzf0J6d23adziOaw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1485818284.16551.133.camel@n1uro>
Message-ID: <CALvFBuzCbzp6PBLcDpq7D4WJit1KrgWJObSpGkXZgHSu=0qPzg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 6:18 PM, Brian <n1uro at n1uro.ampr.org> wrote:

> Corey;
>
> On Mon, 2017-01-30 at 17:09 -0500, Corey Reichle wrote:
>
> > My subnet has no relationship to EastNet, and until recently, I had
> > only an inkling it existed.
>
> It's been around since the 80's... formed and maintained by K2BJG/SK
> until he became SK. Now I'm the engineer, developer, and ip coordinator
> for all of EastNet with the exception of 44.68/16 but I do maintain a
> great relationship with Charles and helped him with his system recently.
> I also contribute to the LinFBB project and JNOS projects.
>
>

Awesome!  Thank you for your contribution to the amateur radio service.


> > Yes, NIH.  As far as the 44/8 net is concerned, IMO, it's an IP space
> > reserved for amateur usage, and Brian Kantor is the manager of the
> > block.  AMPRGATE is there to be able to act as the AS for the address
> > block.
> >
> Actually, BK is the "owner" of 44/8. Amprgate is not the AS for 44/8 but
> one of the Junipers within UCSD is. Amprgate is the ipencap system for
> 44/8 and also sends out the Ripv2 broadcasts. Years ago it was referred
> to as mirrorshades (you may recall). It's OS is BSD.
>
>
While I'm unable to locate the RFC that allocates the 44 net space, I
believe BK is the coordinator of the space, not the owner.


> > Personally, I would like to see the 44/8 net space, as a whole,
> > operate as a modern network functions.  If not that level, I would
> > like to see the NYS AMPR network do so.  In any case, I will not be
> > employing any kludges just to get my network routed somewhere, as I am
> > more than happy to coordinate with individual network operators, and
> > set up peering arrangements with them.  Using industry standard
> > routing and bridging protocols.
> >
> An individual subnet may do what you wish (see my private mail) but the
> mass percentage of users are using ipencap. Ipencap is not a kluge. The
> true issue is with spoofing and route protocol hijacking which for their
> own protection ISPs filter. While it prohibits experimentation there's
> nothing you can't do on the other side of the link.
>
> >
>

I think we're conflating two things:  The "kludge" I refer to is the
routing protocol currently in "popular" usage.  ampr-ripd is, by all
definitions, a kludge, that was designed prior to the creation of modern,
dynamic, link-state protocols.

Ipencap, I merely take philosophical aversion to:  I refuse to send/receive
traffic from the public internet, via an insecure channel.  Ipencap is
insecure, and easily spoofed.  I have no guarantee I am routing traffic
from whom I am to believe the other party is, and is subject to alteration
on-the-fly.  This is where IPSec/OpenVPN tunnels comes into play, in my
mind.


> > And that's fine.  At this time, it's the only manner ARCD provides.
> > That doesn't mean it's set into stone, and unchanging.  The best way
> > to convince ARCD to employ another method is to show (By use) it's
> > better.
>
> OpenVPN at amprgate wouldn't be feasible and it'd take up too much of
> BK's time from his employment. There's also possible agreement issues
> between UCSD and ARDC that may not permit such a thing. This I'm unsure
> of. It may not have anything to do with ARDC. I can say, for the cost of
> a 44-net block vs leasing one from an ISP is a hell of a deal and one
> shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.
>
>
OpenVPN would take no more time than it does to configure end-points for an
ipencap tunnel.  However, of course, that is not my call to make, and is
subject to the operator of that equipment.

I, myself, personally, will not deploy an insecure tunnel over the public
internet, on my gear, as that is my call, as I operate and own my
equipment, and feel I have a moral duty to my end point users.


> > Well, seeing as anything going over the public internet would be
> > tunneled in the IPSec tunnel, they wouldn't be able to stop any of it,
> > as route adverts would be sent to neighboring peers, via their links.
> > Just like it works in every large-scale network on the planet.
>
> That would be dependent on the upstream's NOC. Many now scan frames for
> such traffic, others could care less.
>
>
No NOC can scan IPSec tunnels, other than to see they are IPSec tunnels.
Same with OpenVPN tunnels.  Hence, the entire point.


> > Some sort of routing is required to determine where to route IP
> > packets.  It's not magic that happens.  And, Flex32, last I checked,
> > has no package available for OpenWRT or Cisco routers.
>
> Cisco's support ipencap very well! For years I was routing 44/8 on my
> 2600 without a glitch using ipip. Most people don't understand it.
> Flex32? Would you like fries and a blue screen of death with the ecomm
> message sir? :) Again, you need to define the type of RF here, standard
> packet ax25 or 802.11ham? In standard packet, there's no IP route tables
> within flex yet it routes the frames dynamically. Remember, you only
> need to focus on the top layer which is ax25 NOT ip. Since Ip is
> encapsulated under ax25, where ax25 goes, so will the IP. Let me present
> a quick example of routing IP under flex... w1edh.ampr.org is 2 1200
> baud hops from me... not the ideal for IP but there's no netrom
> overhead. As you'll see, IP to w1edh (which has no IP at all except what
> I built via VHF) does work:
> n1uro-15 at n1uro.ampr.org:/uronode$ tra
> Executing command...
> what IP or HOSTName do you wish to trace? w1edh.ampr.org
> Please wait while we trace to w1edh.ampr.org...
> traceroute to w1edh.ampr.org (44.88.8.1), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
>  1  gw.ct.ampr.org (44.88.0.1)  6.328 ms  6.499 ms  6.880 ms
>  2  k1yon.ampr.org (44.88.4.1)  56.844 ms  61.509 ms  65.469 ms
>  3  w1edh.ampr.org (44.88.8.1)  5028.054 ms * *
> Tracing complete.
> URONode tracer v1.3 - TraceRoute utility by N1URO.
> Goodbye.
> n1uro-15 at n1uro.ampr.org:/uronode$ t w1edh.ampr.org node
> Trying 44.88.8.1:node... <Enter> aborts.
> Socket established to 44.88.8.1:node
> (w1edh.ampr.org:uronode) login:
>
>
Again, conflating two concepts:  Wireline protocols, and routing
protocols.  IPv4 (And v6) are wireline agnostic.

What I am suggesting is to move away from monolithic networking stacks
(Relying on the "magic" of flex to handle wireline and routing), and to
focus on the IPv4 aspect.  IPv4 is very well documented, and understood,
and most OS's can handle all of that just dandy.

Perhaps a diagram is a good way to explain why I am not keen on using a
custom routing protocol.  Here is a quick diagram of my network:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-myPYu9SCyBSFhVRXA2OTd0aTQ/view?usp=sharing

ie, 13 and 14 stations are 802.11 stations, that could have additional
clients connecting.  When these radios come and go, the network dynamically
updates it's routing tables via OLSR.  My entire network runs OLSR, so all
the routes get updated quickly, and there is rapid convergence.

The same protocol can scale up, without the need for one single point of
failure for routing updates, and routing loops are prevented due to the
routing protocol in use.

And yes, .4 is an AX25 link, which again, can have many clients behind it,
even a neighboring AMPRNet network.  And, it will dynamically update the
routing as those networks come and go.  The networks can even be connected
via 14 and 4, at the same time, and link quality will determine the best
route the network should use.

None of this is possible with ampr-ripd/RIP44/whatever we'd like to call it.


> There's fbb mail forwarding over that link too so that explains the
> temporary latency of 5s, however you don't see flexnet.k1yon or
> flexnet.w1edh in the path. It's transparent but it is passing the ax25
> frame (with IP under it) to it's destination. I thought the same as you
> "you need an ip route table to route ip" however I found in this case it
> isn't true at all. pc/FlexNet has no ip/rose/netrom route tables in
> it... just ax25. We're actually using the IP feature to do axip within
> the native netrom nodes for our NetRom gateways. This also helps gain
> EastNet access into my SQL server.
>
>
> We used to have a nice 9600 baud ax25/ip network from Central Mass
> through CT and down the Hudson river however many stations went dark.
> it'd be nice to see that rebuilt and act as a nice parallel to an
> 802.11ham network.
>
>
Maybe, just maybe, the network went dark, because newer, better
technologies were never adopted, to provide a single, unified,
decentralized network?

We can do that here, in the NYS network.  If we make NYAMPR great again,
others will see the example.



> > Sure.  OpenVPN is the single point of failure then, just like ipip
> > encaps are the single point of failure today.  Not seeing what the
> > difference is?
>
> The difference is, if amprgate went offline for whatever reasoning, I'd
> still have 44/8 access to the globe as it's point to point. In the case
> of Ireland, the entire country is cut off from the globe. An OpenVPN
> server for NYS that's failed for whatever reason could cut NYS off from
> the rest of the country, if not itself as well.
>
>
It would still be point-to-point networking, just using OpenVPN/IPSec
tunnels with peers, who dynamically update routes as they come and go.
This is not rocket surgery, and is done around the globe today.

If you peer with my network, over an IPSec tunnel, and we exchange routing
information, and I peer with KX2XX (Hopefully, not a real callsign), and
exchange routing, YOU can reach KX2XX's network via mine, and vice-versa.
If you, and KX2XX were to peer with Germany over an HF link, and do the
same, we could ALL reach Germany.

This is basic, dynamic routing.


> > I'm not talking about ipencap.  I'm referring more to the routing
> > protocol:  ampr-ripd.
>
> One doesn't have to use that. There's the munge system and loader files
> as well. Of course as public IPs change such a system would be out of
> date.
>
>
So, without ampr-ripd, what is the routing protocol?


> > Well, for this discussion, we're talking about the wire-line links
> > needed to bridge island networks, not available via RF.  Regardless,
> > many routing protocols work just fine for wire-line or wireless, such
> > as OSLR.
>
> Why not build the RF? Maybe find some RF sites to act as a bridge
> instead? If you can place a wire, you can build RF.
> >
> >
>

I'm actually all for that, which is why I'm not overly concerned with
hooking into ARCD via an insecure tunnel, and more interested in peering
with NYS networks.


> > Praytell:  How does one access an IPv4 address, via RF, without a
> > routing table entry for it?  Sure, I can call KC2UGV-8 via KTOWN, and
> > NetROM will make it happen.  But, without a routing table and route, I
> > cannot ping 44.x.x.x.
> >
> Within a Flex based ax25 wan, the route tables are at each end point.
> The rest is handled via ax25. Simple. Perhaps you might want to attend
> the next EastNet meeting which will be late springtime.
> >
> > So, routing protocols ARE required for IPv4 routing.  RF or wireline.
>
> Not in the case of a Flex based system, and it's quite dynamic in
> nature. I know for your position this sounds like the impossible, which
> was EastNet's stumbling block for about 5 years until I figure out just
> how to do this. In the interim, we were fed a lot of misinformation on
> getting xNOS to do IP on EastNet by the Gunter Jost himself.
>

Just because Flex handles routing, doesn't mean there's no routing
protocol.  And, yes, I understand NetROM is a dynamic routing protocol for
AX25 frames.

What I will tell you, from my experimentation, my network design above
would not be possible using Flex, and is only possible due to my use of an
IPv4 routing protocol like OLSR.


> >
> > We are talking about a unified IPv4 network, which is what this
> > mailing list is for:  The NYS operators of an IPv4 address space.  The
> > physical layer isn't really at issue here, aside from how we link
> > island together until we have RF links.
>
> The physical layer is the starting point in reality when you study your
> OSI layers, so it does matter. The physical layer of an 802.11ham point
> and that of an ax25 point are two totally different beasts as to what
> they can and/or can not do especially if you're comparing a PacComm Tiny
> 2 Mk II with an X1J-4 eprom to a Microtik. You wouldn't use OSPF on
> X1J-4, and I don't believe Microtik does NetRom.
>
>
>
AMPRNet is an IPv4 network.  IPv4 is wire-line/less agnostic, and doesn't
care what carries it.  I route (Today) IPv4 over AX.25, and over 802.11.
Dynamically.

So, I suppose, in summation, I am willing to peer with anyone over RF or
over an encrypted tunnel via the public internet.  I can exchange static
routes, or we can agree on a common, modern, dynamic routing protocol.


> --
> I don't have to worry about body fitness in 2017. All I do is
> show my body to itself in the mirror and it throws plenty of
> fits.
> --------
> 73 de Brian - N1URO
> email: (see above)
> Web: http://www.n1uro.net/
> Ampr1: http://n1uro.ampr.org/
> Ampr2: http://nos.n1uro.ampr.org
> Linux Amateur Radio Services
> axMail-Fax & URONode
> http://uronode.sourceforge.net
> http://axmail.sourceforge.net
> AmprNet coordinator for:
> Connecticut, Delaware, Maine,
> Maryland, Massachusetts,
> New Hampshire, New Jersey, Pennsylvania,
> Rhode Island, and Vermont.
>
>
>
>
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